Welcome Guest. Sign in or Signup

5 Answers

Student Pilot Transitioning between Piper Archers

Asked by: 5761 views FAA Regulations, Flight Instructor, General Aviation, Private Pilot, Student Pilot

I am working with a private pilot candidate who already has solo privileges in a Piper Archer II (PA28-181). The client would like to solo in a Piper Archer I (PA28-180). I am assuming these two airplanes represent different make/models (PA28-180 vs. PA28-181), and the client would therefore require a new set of solo endorsements to transition from the Archer II to the Archer I. Is that correct?

Lastly, if the above student wanted to transition from the Piper Archer II to the Piper Archer III (both PA28-181's), than in this scenario no additional endorsements would be required. Does that sound about right?

Thanks in advance for the helpful feedback!  

Ace Any FAA Written Test!
Actual FAA Questions / Free Lifetime Updates
The best explanations in the business
Fast, efficient study.
Pass Your Checkride With Confidence!
FAA Practical Test prep that reflects actual checkrides.
Any checkride: Airplane, Helicopter, Glider, etc.
Written and maintained by actual pilot examiners and master CFIs.
The World's Most Trusted eLogbook
Be Organized, Current, Professional, and Safe.
Highly customizable - for student pilots through pros.
Free Transition Service for users of other eLogs.
Our sincere thanks to pilots such as yourself who support AskACFI while helping themselves by using the awesome PC, Mac, iPhone/iPad, and Android aviation apps of our sponsors.

5 Answers



  1. Kris Kortokrax on May 12, 2014

    The make is Piper. The model is PA-28. 180 and 181 are the series. John Lynch had answered a question similar to this in his FAQ. In the question he referred to a Cessna 172. He stated that Cessna is the make, 172 the model and A through S are the series. He stated that no additional endorsements were required. He did say that as an instructor you may want to give your student instruction in the different airplane.

    +1 Votes Thumb up 1 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  2. Ash on May 12, 2014

    Kris,

    Thank you very much for the quick reply. That clears it up!

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  3. Mark Kolber on May 14, 2014

    Maybe just a technicality. A PA28-181 is a Piper Archer. A PA28-180 is not a Piper Archer. It’s a Cherokee. The “1” refers to the tapered wing and was accompanied by a model name change. All PA28s are not necessarily the same and may constitute different “models”, not just “series” from a solo viewpoint. Not quite the same as the 172 example Lynch used.

    The problem is always how much of a difference requires requires a new endorsement and how the original endorsement was written. Sticking with the simple 172 example, if the original solo endorsement was written as “172R” rather than simply as “172” I would expect a separate endorsement for a different series.

    If the solo endorsement in your case specifies “181” I would re-endorse for a 180.

    Overkill? Maybe. Ink is cheap.

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  4. Kris Kortokrax on May 14, 2014

    Research trying to find a definition of “series” in the FARs and Orders produced nothing, yet the terminology “Make/Model” and Make/Model/Series” appears all over the place in FAA documents. I love it when they use terms that they have not defined (not really).

    The closest thing I could find to define “series” is a document commissioned by ICAO.
    http://www.intlaviationstandards.org/Documents/AircraftMakeModelSeriesBusinessRules1.pdf

    In that document, they refer to names like Archer and Cherokee as “Popular Names”.

    As most of us are aware, it is really the insurance industry that drives many of the requirements when transitioning to other aircraft.

    The important thing is that as an instructor, you provide the student with the instruction required for safe operation of the aircraft. Documentation of that instruction is required by 61.51 and 61.189. As Mark said, it costs you nothing but a little time and ink to record an endorsement which further attests to the fact that you gave the instruction.

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  5. Ash on May 14, 2014

    Kris and Mark,

    Thanks again for all the helpful advice. It’s much appreciated!

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes


The following terms have been auto-detected the question above and any answers or discussion provided. Click on a term to see its definition from the Dauntless Aviation JargonBuster Glossary.

Answer Question

Our sincere thanks to all who contribute constructively to this forum in answering flight training questions. If you are a flight instructor or represent a flight school / FBO offering flight instruction, you are welcome to include links to your site and related contact information as it pertains to offering local flight instruction in a specific geographic area. Additionally, direct links to FAA and related official government sources of information are welcome. However we thank you for your understanding that links to other sites or text that may be construed as explicit or implicit advertising of other business, sites, or goods/services are not permitted even if such links nominally are relevant to the question asked.