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5 Answers

Student Pilot Transitioning between Piper Archers

Asked by: 5802 views FAA Regulations, Flight Instructor, General Aviation, Private Pilot, Student Pilot

I am working with a private pilot candidate who already has solo privileges in a Piper Archer II (PA28-181). The client would like to solo in a Piper Archer I (PA28-180). I am assuming these two airplanes represent different make/models (PA28-180 vs. PA28-181), and the client would therefore require a new set of solo endorsements to transition from the Archer II to the Archer I. Is that correct?

Lastly, if the above student wanted to transition from the Piper Archer II to the Piper Archer III (both PA28-181's), than in this scenario no additional endorsements would be required. Does that sound about right?

Thanks in advance for the helpful feedback!  

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5 Answers



  1. Kris Kortokrax on May 12, 2014

    The make is Piper. The model is PA-28. 180 and 181 are the series. John Lynch had answered a question similar to this in his FAQ. In the question he referred to a Cessna 172. He stated that Cessna is the make, 172 the model and A through S are the series. He stated that no additional endorsements were required. He did say that as an instructor you may want to give your student instruction in the different airplane.

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  2. Ash on May 12, 2014

    Kris,

    Thank you very much for the quick reply. That clears it up!

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  3. Mark Kolber on May 14, 2014

    Maybe just a technicality. A PA28-181 is a Piper Archer. A PA28-180 is not a Piper Archer. It’s a Cherokee. The “1” refers to the tapered wing and was accompanied by a model name change. All PA28s are not necessarily the same and may constitute different “models”, not just “series” from a solo viewpoint. Not quite the same as the 172 example Lynch used.

    The problem is always how much of a difference requires requires a new endorsement and how the original endorsement was written. Sticking with the simple 172 example, if the original solo endorsement was written as “172R” rather than simply as “172” I would expect a separate endorsement for a different series.

    If the solo endorsement in your case specifies “181” I would re-endorse for a 180.

    Overkill? Maybe. Ink is cheap.

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  4. Kris Kortokrax on May 14, 2014

    Research trying to find a definition of “series” in the FARs and Orders produced nothing, yet the terminology “Make/Model” and Make/Model/Series” appears all over the place in FAA documents. I love it when they use terms that they have not defined (not really).

    The closest thing I could find to define “series” is a document commissioned by ICAO.
    http://www.intlaviationstandards.org/Documents/AircraftMakeModelSeriesBusinessRules1.pdf

    In that document, they refer to names like Archer and Cherokee as “Popular Names”.

    As most of us are aware, it is really the insurance industry that drives many of the requirements when transitioning to other aircraft.

    The important thing is that as an instructor, you provide the student with the instruction required for safe operation of the aircraft. Documentation of that instruction is required by 61.51 and 61.189. As Mark said, it costs you nothing but a little time and ink to record an endorsement which further attests to the fact that you gave the instruction.

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  5. Ash on May 14, 2014

    Kris and Mark,

    Thanks again for all the helpful advice. It’s much appreciated!

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