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8 Answers

Can I fly the passenger leg in a 135

Asked by: 1340 views ,
FAA Regulations

I’m pic typed but flying as a sic in a 135 on citations. I only fly empty legs (91) and never flown a 135 leg despite having 700+ hours in type and 1500TT. I don’t have an atp yet and my chief pilot and d.o told me I can only fly passengers with an atp and need to pass a 297 check. So assuming all legs are 135 for the rest of the year does that mean I don’t get to fly at all? Please clarify this for me

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8 Answers



  1. Mark Kolber on Sep 24, 2023

    Does reading FAR 135.95 and 135.243 help answer your question?

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  2. KDS on Sep 25, 2023

    You might double check that every leg is a 135 leg. It’s a very common practice for 135 operators to start the day flying 135 legs and then bring the aircraft home on a part 91 leg so as not to violate the duty time requirements.

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  3. Simpleaviator on Sep 25, 2023

    From my understanding and the reg I’m not PIC. I’m just asking why can’t I fly the legs? Because I am being told in order for me to fly the 135 legs I need to hold an ATP and do a 297.
    Meaning hypothetically if all legs are 135 and none are 91, I don’t get to fly the legs.

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  4. Mark Kolber on Sep 25, 2023

    Is there something in you company\’s rules that applies?

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  5. Best Answer


    Jeff Baum on Sep 27, 2023

    You need to read the Operation Specifications for the company’s 135 certificate. If the Ops Specs are approved for Single Pilot only, then you most likely would need to be a fully qualified PIC before you could operate the controls during a 135 segment.

    Often companies will have a “SIC” for insurance requirements, even though the FAA approved Ops Specs are Single Pilot only. Some charter customers require a second pilot for their flights. If the Ops Specs does not require an official SIC, some companies will save some money by not “qualifying” the pilot as an actual SIC.

    If you are not on the 135 certificate as a qualified PIC/SIC you may not be allowed to fly the plane during 135 operations.

    135.115 Manipulation of controls.
    No pilot in command may allow any person to manipulate the flight controls of an aircraft during flight conducted under this part, nor may any person manipulate the controls during such flight unless that person is—
    (a) A pilot employed by the certificate holder and qualified in the aircraft;

    Also, if this is the case, any time which is flown under 135 would not be logable. Normally SIC is required by (1) The Type Certification requiring 2 pilots, or (2) the Operation Specifications requires 2 pilots. If the SIC is not required, then the time in the right seat 135 time is not logable. I have seen the FAA require that such time be struck through and not included in the pilot’s flight time.

    61.51 (f) Logging second-in-command flight time. A person may log second-in-command time only for that flight time during which that person:
    (1) Is qualified in accordance with the second-in-command requirements of § 61.55, and occupies a crewmember station in an aircraft that requires more than one pilot by the aircraft’s type certificate;
    (2) Holds the appropriate category, class, and instrument rating (if an instrument rating is required for the flight) for the aircraft being flown, and more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is being conducted; or
    (3) Serves as second in command in operations conducted in accordance with § 135.99(c) of this chapter when a second pilot is not required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is being conducted, provided the requirements in § 61.159(c) are satisfied.

    Note… (3) references a specific provision in 135.99(c) requiring that this be part of the Operations Specifications for the Part 135 certificate holder. Not just “Insurance requirements” or charter customer preferences.

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  6. Simpleaviator on Sep 27, 2023

    Bullseye👍🏻. 10/10 explanation and you hit all the questions asked. If the SIC is employed by certificate holder and holds appropriate type rating for the aircraft and the aircraft requires the SIC by Ops Specs too. This one can is able to manipulate the controls on a 135 leg

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  7. Jeff Baum on Sep 27, 2023

    That’s the regs. The company in-house rules may be different. The company’s insurance requirements may be different. I flew for a 135 years ago where the insurance required that only the designated PIC would be the flying pilot during 135 segments. A calm conversation with the Chief Pilot would likely resolve your questions.

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  8. Simpleaviator on Sep 27, 2023

    Yes, I express this to him but unfortunately has great ego and does not want to hear anything else than what he knows. Especially coming from Europe where it’s different. I calmly ask questions to keep myself in the loop but always perceives it as a challenge or saying you don’t know the regulations. Pretty hard so I have to come to internet

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