Welcome Guest. Sign in or Signup

3 Answers

Required Documents – POH for C172B MFR Year 1961?

Asked by: 1555 views , , , ,
FAA Regulations

I picked up a student flying a C172B that he bought for training, built in 1961. I'm looking for a clear cut answer on whether a POH is required. I've found a few examples of a POH existing for this model, but I'm unsure if it was developed after certification and therefore not needed. I've also seen that placards basically serve as the operating manual to comply with 91.9. Does he or does he not need a physical POH and if he doesn't already have it, what steps can be taken to make this plane airworthy?

Ace Any FAA Written Test!
Actual FAA Questions / Free Lifetime Updates
The best explanations in the business
Fast, efficient study.
Pass Your Checkride With Confidence!
FAA Practical Test prep that reflects actual checkrides.
Any checkride: Airplane, Helicopter, Glider, etc.
Written and maintained by actual pilot examiners and master CFIs.
The World's Most Trusted eLogbook
Be Organized, Current, Professional, and Safe.
Highly customizable - for student pilots through pros.
Free Transition Service for users of other eLogs.
Our sincere thanks to pilots such as yourself who support AskACFI while helping themselves by using the awesome PC, Mac, iPhone/iPad, and Android aviation apps of our sponsors.

3 Answers



  1. John D Collins on Mar 01, 2023

    This vintage of aircraft does not require a POH. The TCDS specifies the required placards. An AFM is not provided for the C172B.

    The relevant regulations dealing with a POH/AFM are 91.9, 21.5, 23.2620 and 23.2005 Since 21.5 does not require an AFM for the C172B because of its date of first flight, the contents as specified in 23.2620 does not apply, nor does the reference in 23.2005.

    91.9 Civil aircraft flight manual, marking, and placard requirements.

    (a) Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this section, no person may operate a civil aircraft without complying with the operating limitations specified in the approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual, markings, and placards, or as otherwise prescribed by the certificating authority of the country of registry.

    (b) No person may operate a U.S.-registered civil aircraft –

    (1) For which an Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual is required by § 21.5 of this chapter unless there is available in the aircraft a current, approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual or the manual provided for in § 121.141(b); and

    (2) For which an Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual is not required by § 21.5 of this chapter, unless there is available in the aircraft a current approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual, approved manual material, markings, and placards, or any combination thereof.

    21.5 Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual.

    (a) With each airplane or rotorcraft not type certificated with an Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual and having no flight time before March 1, 1979, the holder of a type certificate (including amended or supplemental type certificates) or the licensee of a type certificate must make available to the owner at the time of delivery of the aircraft a current approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual.

    +1 Votes Thumb up 1 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  2. Jeff Baum on Mar 02, 2023

    John has nailed this. I own a 1950 Cessna 170A. There is no Pilot Operating Handbook (POH). I carry a copy of the Type Certificate Data Sheet (TCDS), and a copy of the “Owner’s Manual” which is more like the owners manual for an old car.

    The “O” in ARROW refers to the “Operating Limitations”, which is the instrument markings, airspeed limitations, W&B limits and required placards. A POH has these listed in Section 2 “Limitations” all drawn from the TCDS. In the TCDS the placards are usually listed in the notes section.

    Taking a checkride in an old airplane and you want to impress the DPE? Show up with the Owner’s Manual AND the TCDS. Then be able to explain the TCDS. When I’ve had this happen they have just demonstrated a good knowledge of ARROW actually means and how to apply that.

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes



  3. Kris Kortokrax on Mar 04, 2023

    The 172B was certified under CAR 3, not FAR part 21 and 23.
    The pertinent regulation is CAR 3.777(b) which states

    “For airplanes having a maximum certificated weight of 6,000 pounds or less an Airplane Flight Manual is not required; instead the information prescribed in this part for inclusion in the Airplane Flight Manual shall be made available to the operator by the manufacturer in the form of clearly stated placards, markings or manuals.”

    Also Note 1 of the TCDS contains the following statement:

    “Current weight and balance report including list of equipment included in certificated empty weight, and loading instructions when necessary must be provided for each aircraft at the time of original certification.”

    Does the owner have an equipment list and W&B info?

    0 Votes Thumb up 0 Votes Thumb down 0 Votes


Answer Question

Our sincere thanks to all who contribute constructively to this forum in answering flight training questions. If you are a flight instructor or represent a flight school / FBO offering flight instruction, you are welcome to include links to your site and related contact information as it pertains to offering local flight instruction in a specific geographic area. Additionally, direct links to FAA and related official government sources of information are welcome. However we thank you for your understanding that links to other sites or text that may be construed as explicit or implicit advertising of other business, sites, or goods/services are not permitted even if such links nominally are relevant to the question asked.