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3 Answers

61.129 (iv)

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Commercial Pilot, FAA Regulations, Flight Instructor

 Part 61.129 (iv) for airplane single engine rating states "One 2-hour cross country flight in a single engine airplane in nighttime conditions that consists of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure;"

I have an XC flight in my logbook from KLGU-KTWF-KLGU. Straight line distance from KLGU-KTWF is 124 NM. Total flight time there and back was 3.0 hours however only 2.7 of that flight was logged as night time. The entire flight after doing a touch and go at KTWF back to KLGU was all night. This flight was written in my logbook as one entry. 

I asked a DPE if that satisfies 61.129 (iv) and he said he doesn't think so as the entire entry should be at night and it would be safest to redo that flight to make sure that it isn't a problem.

What do you guys think? Does that flight satisfy 61.129 (iv)?

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3 Answers



  1. Bryan on Feb 09, 2023

    First, I would not discount the opinion of the DPE regardless of what is posted here.

    Second, the fact that you even thought to ask a DPE and now this site about the flight means that any assessment that the flight is insufficient to satisfy 61.129(a)(3)(iv) is reasonable even if someone at the FAA eventually decides that the flight does satisfy the requirement.

    I think the reason that the DPE is leaning away from saying it counts is that assessing exactly when night conditions began during a flight is not easily done from a logbook because you’re not required to log the exact time you were off and back. If you did, then you can compare that to the appropriate night definition from the regs and prove that you did 2 hours in nighttime conditions. Otherwise, you’re asking the DPE sign off on something that is not clear-cut. Many won’t do it. Which leads me to the same conclusion as the DPE–best to redo the flight because you may be forced to anyway.

    Going forward, and especially if you’re going to be a CFI, when you’re doing a flight to satisfy a specific regulation like 61.129(3)(a)(iii) or (iv) or 61.129(4)(i), the best practice is to plan the trip around the regulation so that the logbook is very clear for checkride day. In your case, if you had waited 20 minutes to takeoff, there would be no question and I bet that 20 minutes would not have been a dealbreaker that night.

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  2. Kris Kortokrax on Feb 10, 2023

    I would discount the opinion of the DPE. I retired from the FAA as an Operations Inspector in November 2021. At one time, I was in charge of the DPEs in our FSDO. Neither DPEs, nor flight instructors, nor FAA inspectors may issue legal interpretations. Those come from the Office of Legal Counsel.

    Asking the question doesn’t, in and of itself, render the flight invalid.

    Having said that, you need consider the objective of the requirement. That is to gain experience flying in night conditions, to include the takeoff at night, the flight and the landing at night.

    You also need to consider that 61.129(a)(3)(iv) uses the term “nighttime conditions”. It does not contain the same language as 61.57(b)(1) requiring the time to be acquired during the period 1 hour after sunset and 1 hour before sunrise. Night, in 14 CFR 1.1 is defined as “the time between the end of evening civil twilight and the beginning of morning civil twilight,”

    If you didn’t log night time until 1 hour after sunset, your first 20 minutes would likely be night time and the whole flight would be night cross country.

    The Gebhart legal interpretation (2009) contains a statement that “Section 61.65(d) contemplates that only the pilot conducting the entire flight, including takeoff, landing and en route flight, may log cross country flight time.” This seems to indicate that for a night cross country flight, the takeoff would need to be done during nighttime conditions.

    Also, the flight instructor is lazy. There should have been two separate entries. Look at 61.51(b)(1)(iii), which requires logging the departure and destination for a given flight. Trying to cram multiple flights into a one line entry doesn’t appear to meet this requirement.

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  3. Russ Roslewski on Feb 10, 2023

    Kris, I was with you up until this:

    “Also, the flight instructor is lazy…”

    It seems that you’re trying to say that the instructor is lazy for combining multiple legs of the same flight onto one line. That’s pretty standard practice, my instructors routinely did it and so do I. I wouldn’t call it being “lazy”.

    From the OP’s post, it does not appear that the instructional flight was being conducted to meet any requirement of 61.129. Rather it appears that the OP is looking back at past flights (maybe a new aircraft checkout, or refresher flight, or new avionics or something) to find one that fits. If it HAD been an intentional flight to meet 61.129, then first the instructor did a lousy job meeting that requirement, and second yes it should have been logged differently to make it clear, but that does not seem to be the case here.

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