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4 Answers

ATP CTP Course and TSA approval

Asked by: 2435 views FAA Regulations

Hell everybody,

 

I'm planning to be enrolled in ATP-CTP course so I can write ATPL multi engine written exam so I searched some schools to choose from.

Some schools in Florida like pan-am say that TSA approval is required for non us citizen before enrollment, but other school (CAE) told me TSA is not required for the course. (i emailed them and confirmed)

pan nam website> https://panamacademy.com/atp-ctp-airline-transport-pilot-certification-training-course

CAE website > https://www.cae.com/civil-aviation/aviation-training/airline-pilot-training/airline-transport-pilot-atp-certification-training-program-ctp-course/

 

what makes the difference between those two schools?

it seems that TSA is required for like multi engine and instrument rating and any training on aircraft weigh more than 12500lbs. so those full motion simulator are the representative of heavy airplanes thus require TSA approval but the CAE has simulators for smaller airplane types??

im not sure, just speculating.

any thoughts?

4 Answers



  1. Bryan on Sep 01, 2022

    49 CFR 1552.3 is the regulation. (a) talks about regulations for aircraft heavier than 12,500, (b) talks about the expedited process for the same weight, then (c) talks about aircraft that weigh less than 12,500.

    I don’t see anything in the entire regulation that cares about an instrument rating and the only mention of multi-engine rating is talking about how foreign pilots looking to get training here can be eligible for expedited processing of their TSA approval. The regulation also doesn’t care whether the flight training takes place in an actual plane or a simulator–the rules are the same.

    Under (c), “A flight school may not provide flight training in the operation of any aircraft having a maximum certificated takeoff weight of 12,500 pounds or less to a candidate unless” the school has notified the TSA, the candidate has submitted the right form to the TSA, the flight school has submitted a photo to the TSA, and the flight training begins within 180 days the candidate submitted the information.

    The only real difference between that and (a) with aircraft over 12,500 pounds is that for those, the flight school has to hear back from the TSA that the candidate does not pose a threat or wait 30 days after the candidate sends their information in before they can begin the training.

    That difference may be the thing that the one flight school is saying they don’t need–approval from the TSA. But I don’t see anything that would release any flight school from the obligations of 49 CFR 1552.3 because the definitions for that section defines “flight school” as “any pilot school, flight training center, air carrier flight training facility, or flight instructor certificated under 14 CFR part 61, 121, 135, 141, or 142…”

    One way or another, the flight school and the candidate have to comply with 49 CFR 1552.3 for the flight training to be legal.

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  2. awair on Sep 02, 2022

    From my experience:
    PanAm were a real pain to deal with for enrolment. The training (type & ATP) was excellent.
    They were also wrong with several of their interpretations for TSA.
    L3 were incredibly flexible, and allowed me to start the ground training while waiting for fingerprint approval.
    I missed the scheduled dates for the SIM, still waiting for the TSA, but they arranged for new dates to match my availability.
    Unfortunately you have to live with the provider’s TSA rep. PanAm said I didn’t qualify for the ‘express’ approval (with a current heavy type rating).
    L3 submitted the same request, which the TSA approved & processed within about 5 days!
    Good luck

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  3. awair on Sep 02, 2022

    In short, you can start the ground part of any course, subject to the provider.
    But you cannot touch an aeroplane or sim until the TSA process is complete.
    ‘Complete’ has different meanings, as posted by @Bryan.
    PanAm wouldn’t let you enrol before TSA approval.
    L3 were more flexible.

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  4. WannaBeCFI on Sep 03, 2022

    thanks for reply guys

    As Bryan noted, 49 CFR 1552.3 states training in these full motion simulator requires TSA clearance regardless of what their weight is

    so i asked CAE why they dont require TSA clearance for their ATP-CTP course unlike others, and they replied that TSA is 100% not required for their course along with the following answer.

    “Regarding TSA being required for ATP-CTP courses, we are awaiting further guidance from FTSP since they have not updated their policy requiring TSA for ATP/CTP course since 2004.”

    i honestly didnt find this answer very sincere to give to a potential student trying to be careful with everything…
    of course without TSA process it goes a little easier for me but considering the risk that I may get interrogated by FTSP later on when they find out that i didnt do the TSA theres a slight chance my written will be invalid as well..

    i mean they basically didnt clarify anything… im starting to suspect that theyre doing some shady operation lol

    it would be wise for me to just attend a course that mandates TSA, and ATP flight school is offering cheaper course anyway.

    Pardon me another question,
    I need to get my IPC (instrument proficiency check) done by CFII or examiner to be current on my multi engine instrument rating. Does the IPC need to be conducted in a multi engine airplane or a simulator representing multi engine? in that case does the full flight simulator in the ATP-CTP course qualify?

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