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3 Answers

ASEL Commercial Pilot Night Cross-Country 61.129(a)(3)(iv)

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Commercial Pilot, FAA Regulations

I recently acquired a student working on their commercial. They've already done a lot of training for it with a different CFI. For the 2-hour night cross-country mentioned in 61.129(a)(3)(iv), he thinks he has a qualifying flight that I am skeptical qualifies. He departed before "night" with a CFI, flew something like 3 hours (way more than 100NM), and more than 2 hours of the flight was at night. But the problem is he did not depart at night.

 

The way I read the regulation, the "night" requirement applies to the entire cross-country flight. Anyone have any guidance? FAA sources to settle this?

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3 Answers



  1. John D Collins on Jul 26, 2021

    I would agree with your understanding, but I don’t have a reference, just my reading of the regulations.

    61.129(a)3)(iv) reads as: “One 2-hour cross country flight in a single engine airplane in nighttime conditions that consists of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure;”

    From 1.1, the following definitions are specified:

    “Flight time means:
    (1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing;”

    “Night means the time between the end of evening civil twilight and the beginning of morning civil twilight, as published in the Air Almanac, converted to local time.”

    From 61.1:

    “Cross-country time means—
    (i) Except as provided in paragraphs (ii) through (vi) of this definition, time acquired during flight—
    (A) Conducted by a person who holds a pilot certificate;
    (B) Conducted in an aircraft;
    (C) That includes a landing at a point other than the point of departure; and
    (D) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.”

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  2. Russ Roslewski on Jul 27, 2021

    Since this is a pretty gray area, really the best bet is to ask the DPE you plan to use. That DPE is going to ultimately be the one to accept the flight or not. And, assuming they are like most DPEs I work with, they are definitely going to want to see where he has each flight logged to meet the requirements (so it’s not like they won’t notice).

    The DPE has likely seen this situation before and has an answer.

    If the DPE says it’s not acceptable, then even if the applicant disagrees, what are they going to do? Argue with the DPE? That never ends well. You’re left with “shop around for a DPE who will accept it”, or just fly it again.

    If the DPE accepts it, then no worries.

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  3. KDS on Jul 27, 2021

    The FAA trumps the DPE and you can get a legal opinion from them by writing or faxing them:

    Office of the Chief Counsel
    800 Independence Avenue SW
    Washington, DC 20591
    (202) 267-3222 Telephone
    (202) 267-3227 Fax

    Of course, you may have to wait until Christmas to get their opinion.

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