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8 Answers

Climb via SID and Top Altitude

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FAA Regulations, Instrument Rating

Reviewing the FAA's "Climb Via" FAQ, they say if I am cleared to "Climb via SID" and the SID has a Top Altitude, I'm only cleared to the Top Altitude until cleared higher.  Does that include legs of the SID with altitudes higher than the Top Altitude?

For example, the Top Altitude of KSNA ANAHM1.LHS is 2000'.  But the first pilot nav leg SLI-->POXKU is charted as 4000'.  If I only ever heard from ATC, "Climb via SID," would I fly 2000' until SLI, then climb to 4000' for the charted leg?  Or would I stay at 2000' until I received further clearance?

Thanks,
Matt

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8 Answers



  1. Mark Kolber on Jun 29, 2020

    You don’t go any higher than 2000, meeting all restrictions (the MEAs on the chart are not restrictions) on the way up to it until further clearance.

    KISS: A SID and a STAR are just clearances the FAA is nice enough to give you on a chart instead of making you take it all down longhand. So, in this case…

    It is equivalent to an oral clearance which includes, “Maintain 2000. Expect filed altitude 10 minutes after departure” (which it actually says on the chart) and you treat it the same way. You don’t go higher until cleared.

    And just like if it was oral, if you have lost comm, the lost comm rules apply – cleared route, minimum altitudes.

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  2. John D Collins on Jun 29, 2020

    The example SID ANAHM1 would be issued with a “Climb and Maintain” clearance and not use a “Climb VIA” clearance. Here is the relevant guidance from FAA order 7110.65Y:

    5. When a SID does not contain published crossing restrictions and/or is a SID with a Radar
    Vector segment or a Radar Vector SID; or a SID is constructed with a Radar Vector segment and contains published crossing restrictions after the vector segment, instruct aircraft to “MAINTAIN (altitude).”

    ANAHM1 has no published crossing restrictions and uses vectors

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  3. Matt C on Jun 29, 2020

    This makes me more comfortable flying this SID, knowing they will clear me for an altitude and not just “climb via.” But if ATC is required to clear me to a specific altitude pre-departure, what is the purpose of publishing a top altitude?

    If a SID does have crossing restrictions (either below or above) and does not have a vectored segment, is ATC required to clear me for a higher altitude before I end up on a leg for which I’m below the MEA? Or would a pilot-nav-only SID with restrictions necessarily not have a published top altitude?

    Thanks,
    Matt

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  4. John D Collins on Jun 30, 2020

    Top altitudes were published for most SIDs. After that it took some time to work out the kinks of the Climb Via clearance. After some time of issuing them for all SIDs whether they were needed or not,Climb Via was clarified to only apply if their were crossing restrictions on the chart and vectors were not part of the clearance. The charts have not been updated and I am not sure they will be.

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  5. Mark Kolber on Jul 01, 2020

    >>Is ATC required to clear me for a higher altitude before I end up on a leg for which I’m below the MEA

    No. Here’s the confusing part. The MEA on a SID or STAR is not a real MEA – the minimum altitude guaranteeing obstruction clearance and nav signal. Here’s an example to show you this.

    Look at the DRONE arrival into KORF and compare the altitudes on the SID and the exact same routing on the enroute chart.

    FL190 and 2800 MSL can’t both be the minimum altitude to keep you safe and in communication.

    Plenty of other examples of this.

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  6. Mark Kolber on Jul 01, 2020

    Forgive the typo. But take a look and see fir yourself.

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  7. John D Collins on Jul 02, 2020

    I brought up the issue of charting MEA’s on SID’s and STAR’s above the required true MEA for ATC purposes at the Aeronautical Charting Forum. The resolution was to update order 8260.46G (charting of DP’s) to add this statement”

    “Do not raise an MEA to support ATC operational requirements;use fix crossing altitudes where operationally needed.”

    But there are a lot of existing SIDs that have not been updated to reflect the current charting standard.

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  8. Mark Kolber on Jul 03, 2020

    Funny thing is that while the raised MEA is supposedly for ATC operational requirements, ATC will assign the procedure at lower altitudes. I’ve received the DRONE arrival in a piston single at 5000 MSL.

    Nice work with the charting forum, John. I see your excellent comments often.

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