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9 Answers

Departure procedure, what’s with all the VORs on the graphical description, what are they for?

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Look at many departure procedures, for example the Des Moines Nine at KDSM or Meadow Lake Four at KMSP. In addition to the short textual description there are lots of VORs depicted. What purpose does this serve? Are you supposed to pick one of them for your transition to your route?

9 Answers



  1. Russ Roslewski on Apr 02, 2020

    It’s just for “easy” reference, so when they clear you direct to the Crazy Woman VOR*, you don’t have to look at another chart to get the frequency and ID (if navigating using a VOR receiver) or the three-letter ID (if using a GPS). Same for any fixes shown on the chart.

    I say “easy” in quotes because on some of these charts, there are so many of them it’s not real easy to find the one you want. Still, easier than finding it on the enroute chart, at least before EFBs made it easily searchable.

    * Real VOR in Wyoming

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  2. John D Collins on Apr 02, 2020

    This is a vector SID. Most of these can’t be filed in a flight plan because there isn’t a defined route, but the VOR is often filed as the first fix in the route. In the Garmin GPS systems, they may use either Jeppesen or Garmin to supply the Navdata database. With Garmin Navdata, they use the VOR as transition fixes in the dialog to select the SID. Jeppesen does not use them as they are not identified as transition fixes in the procedure.

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  3. mvgossman on Apr 02, 2020

    Thanks Russ and John. Just for fun I tried putting the Des Moines 9 Departure into my GPS and it’s not there, I thought it might put some kind of placeholder with the heading to fly after telling the box what runway I’m using, but it does not.

    So if you look at the Des Moines 9 for example (link below), what’s the ideal route to file? I haven’t been asked to do one of these DPs of this type in ages. I believe what I have done is filed direct in this example, after all it’s Iowa, they ask me to do the Des Moines 9 which is trivially simple, then on course, meaning intercept the direct DSM – STC, my home base. Would it be better to put one of the depicted VORs in as an intermediate fix along the way?

    Two reasons to do things correctly. First is to keep it simple and safe, second is to not look stupid.

    Mitch

    https://aeronav.faa.gov/d-tpp/2004/00117DESMOINES.PDF

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  4. Russ Roslewski on Apr 02, 2020

    You might be over thinking it, which of course is normal in instrument flight!

    The entire Des Moines Nine consists of (paraphrased a bit) “Fly (runway heading) for radar vectors to assigned route/fix. Maintain 5000 or assigned lower altitude, expect (higher) in 10.”

    If your assigned fix is on the chart, great for reference if you need it. If it’s not, then it doesn’t matter. Those NAVAIDs and fixes are not actually part of the departure procedure, they are just what ATC thought useful to include. So if you file (and get) DSM direct OKC (to come say hi), and are given the DSM9 SID, you fly runway heading until you get some other instruction. That’s pretty much it.

    While this SID doesn’t have much of a route, it does have the altitude to maintain and the departure frequency, so the controller does not need to give them to you in your clearance. But in my experience they usually seem to anyway.

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  5. mvgossman on Apr 02, 2020

    All that seems like a waste of ink, doesn’t it? Especially the lat/long. It’s all on the enroute and sectional anyway.

    Yes to overthinking, for sure. Trying to anticipate what some controller will throw at me.

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  6. Mark Kolber on Apr 04, 2020

    Situational awareness is never a waste of a few milliliters in ink.

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  7. Russ Roslewski on Apr 04, 2020

    If you’re thinking about the about of “ink” used, it implies you’re using paper charts. If that’s the case, then having fixes and VORs on the SID is even more convenient. Those VORs may be a hundred or more miles away, so hunting all over a low enroute chart to find the frequency or identifier would be challenging and distracting.

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  8. mvgossman on Apr 04, 2020

    If it helps some people maintain situational awareness on a SID, and yes who uses paper now I do not know, then it’s not a big deal. But there’s such thing as clutter too, I cannot imagine referring to the SID to help plan a route, it’s not anywhere near portrayed on scale.

    And there’s such thing as too much economy with chart detail, such as some intersections in approach plates forcing you to refer to the low altitude enroute chart to find how it’s identified (usually a VOR bearing) when there’s plenty of room on the plate.

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  9. Mark Kolber on Apr 05, 2020

    The chart, especially with a vector SID is not for “planning a route.” It is for understanding a clearance.

    People always seem to forget “SID and STAR 101:” a SID and a STAR are a set of canned and charted ATC instructions. Period.

    They fit into route planning only to this extent. For a SID, *after* you have figured out where you are starting from and where you are going and the enroute routing you would like, a review of the SIDs for your departure airport prepares you for the *possible* instructions (There are typically more than one) you *may* receive to get you from the airport to enroute.

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