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5 Answers

CFI logging time flying with instrument student

Asked by: 2733 views Flight Instructor, Instrument Rating

Hi all - newer instructor here (received CFI in Feb).  I am in the middle of prepping for my double-I, and have been given a new instrument student meanwhile.  I know that I am allowed to fly with him based on the FARs stating that only 15 of 40 instrument hours need to be with a CFII.  My question is: what is the appropriate way for me and my student to log Dual time?  I tried to get answers from 14 CFR 61.51.  Am I to log Dual Given although I'm not an "authorized instructor" for instrument teaching?  And also, is the student able to log Dual Received under the same context?  Certainly there will be some non-instrument "dual instruction" received on any flight with a CFI.  Also, I think I was able to answer my own question on logging PIC, given the fact that, if I'm not acting as an instructor, I would be a safety pilot and would log PIC time under that context.

 

Thanks in advance!

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5 Answers



  1. Kris Kortokrax on Jul 12, 2019

    Your thoughts about PIC appear to be correct. As you are not an “authorized instructor” for the purposes of instrument instruction, you may not log PIC as a result of being an authorized instructor, but you could log PIC time as a safety pilot, if you agree to accept responsibility for the safety of flight. However, you may only log PIC time while the other pilot is “under the hood”. You would not log any time during start, taxi out, engine runup, takeoff (unless an instrument takeoff), landing, taxi in and shutdown.

    You cannot record “dual given” for the other pilot because you cannot act as an instructor.

    There shouldn’t be any “non-instrument dual given”. If I were the pilot’s instrument instructor, I would not want a non CFII providing instruction. I would want to give the pilot instruction on a given task or tasks and then have him go practice those with a safety pilot, if that is his choice.

    There is really no benefit for the student. Financially, he will be out the hourly rate for an instructor, whether you or a CFII is in the plane. He might just as well pay for the CFII.

    Unless you are donating your time. Then there would be some financial benefit for the student.

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  2. RobA61 on Jul 12, 2019

    I agree with you, regarding teaching a student instrument flight without the requisite instructor rating. What reason would they have the regulation written the way it is then? Other than to allow the student to gain instrument time/experience without an authorized instructor… interesting. Thanks for your answers I appreciate it!

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  3. Kris Kortokrax on Jul 12, 2019

    The regulation is not written to allow a non CFII to give instrument instruction. It is written to allow the pilot in training to fulfill 25 of the 40 hours of required simulated or actual instrument time with a safety pilot.

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  4. Mark Kolber on Jul 14, 2019

    Adding to Kris’ explanation of the meaning of the reg, it has always been my view that flight with a safety pilot is as close as an instrument student can get to instrument “solo.” It’s the opportunity to practice the skills and knowledge which were taught.

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  5. Mark Kolber on Jul 14, 2019

    Should also mention that this question was answered by the FAA Chief Counsel’s office in the 2010 Grayson letter.
    https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/data/interps/2010/grayson-3%20-%20(2010)%20legal%20interpretation.pdf

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