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7 Answers

Missing Approaches

Asked by: 2167 views
Instrument Rating

I flew into KCDW this morning. KCDW has four approached LOC 22, GPS 22, GPS 10, and GPS4.  When I went to load the procedure for GPS RNAV 4 in the Cirrus G1000 with WAAS, only LOC 22 and GPS 22 were listed. I updated the software this morning but if the file were corrupted I would assume I would have received an error message. I was south of SBJ so is it possible that they were not showing because if I had gone to SBJ I would depart on the 060 radial which would not be authorized because the procedure is NA from 028 CW 147? If I were IFR would the controller vector me to an approved initial fix and then it would show up as an option? It was a nice day and I only load them sometimes for situational awareness. I would feel a bit different if it this happened in IMC so I would like to understand what is going on.

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7 Answers



  1. Mark Kolber on Apr 26, 2019

    It should not be your direction with respect to SBJ. You said you were approaching SBJ from the south. The NA is for *arrival at* SBJ on those radials, IOW, from the north, not *departing from* SBJ. It\’s because of the big turn you would have to make to reverse direction. Besides I don\’t think the boxes are that sophisticated.

    Side question: why would you depart SBJ on the 060 radial when the charted procedure uses the 078?

    I have no answer for your issue other than database error, although I wouldn’t discount the possibility of user error although I can’t imagine what that would be. Sorry.

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  2. Mark Kolber on Apr 26, 2019

    Correction: arrival at SBJ from the northeast to southeast.

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  3. John D Collins on Apr 26, 2019

    The issue with the procedure is that it is LP. Not all but the most recent versions of the G1000 software will support LP procedures, even thought they are WAAS. Furthermore, older versions of the G1000, GTN, or GNS software will remove these procedure types from the DB if the software is old enough. The latest version of the G1000 software that supports LP+V type annunciation will support these procedures.

    Back several years ago, the FAA decided to remove the VDA and TCH from LP procedures that had a challenging environment for obstacles below the MDA. To make matters worse, they coded the VDA in the DB with a zero degree descent angle. The Garmin GPS systems could not handle a zero and would cause a program fault, killing the approach mid stream. So the response was to remove these procedures from the DB, there were about 60 or 70 such procedures. With later versions of software, they fixed the croaking on final and put the procedures back in the DB, but with an internal code to cause them not to appear if the software version did not handle the zero. So my guess is your software is of the old variety and you should check if there is an update. Although Garmin release a software fix, not all manufacturers, who are the owners of the STC, paid for the update and the testing necessary for the STC to be released.

    As far as the Note, such as “Procedure NA for arrival on SAX VORTAC airway radials 093 CW 252”, this note only applies to airway routes, so at SAX, that means V188 westbound on the 093 radial, V213 northbound on the 185 radial, V249 Northeast bound on the 209 radial, and V39 northeast bound on the 252 radial. On random routes inside the wedge CW from the SAX 093 radial to the 252 radial, the note does not apply, but if you are on such a route, you will need radar vectors to final or direct RNAV to YOVUN (IAF) and do the HILPT. The GPS won’t restrict you by removing the approach, it will just insist that you fly the HILPT.

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  4. Mark Kolber on Apr 27, 2019

    That is really interesting, John. Thanks for that explanation of LP approaches and older GPS versions.

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  5. John Cordeiro on Apr 27, 2019

    Here is what Garmin told me which is very interesting:

    The two approaches in question on are Garmin’s database exclusion list due to an issue with the lack of a descent angle on approaches that have an LP service level. For additional details, see Service Advisory 1372:

    https://www.garmin.com/en-US/aviationalerts/service-advisory-1372-rev-a-unavailable-rnav-gps-approaches-due-to-lack-of-vda/

    The full database exclusion list can be found here:

    https://avdb.garmin.com/docs/garmin_data_exclusions.html

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  6. John D Collins on Apr 27, 2019

    John Cordeiro, as I said, if your G1000 software is old, the LP issue will cause some procedures to be removed from the DB. If you can update to 13.0 or later, problem solved. Not all manufacturers will provide the update.

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  7. Warren Webb Jr on Apr 28, 2019

    The approach procedures and service levels available can be found on the airport page, APR softkey, which can be checked preflight to hopefully avoid any surprises at the destination.

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