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STARS

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Instrument Rating

On the DEMME3 arrival into Pittsburgh there is a note that the NESTO fix to expect 10,000. The next recommended altitude is 3600 ft. Is it correct to assume that the controller would give descent instruction prior to reaching NESTO? If not, how would it be possible to get to the published altitudes in such a short distance? 

 

 

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2 Answers



  1. Russ Roslewski on Apr 12, 2019

    The key misunderstanding here is that “the next recommended altitude is 3600.” That 3600 is a minimum altitude, not a recommended one.

    When we fly an approach, we often try to get down to the minimum altitude before the next fix, because this can be important to permit a stabilized, configured approach – especially at the FAF.

    But on a STAR, there is no real need to (for example in this instance) descend immediately to 3600 on passing NESTO. If you look, for the GRUNZ transition (the shortest one), you have 14 miles to descend from 10,000 to 3100. That’s about 500 feet per nm, which is steep but not unmanageable. However, if you look at the approaches for runway 32, the minimum altitude at GRUNZ is either 4000 or 6000, depending on which procedure. That’s much less descent. Additionally, the STAR says to expect vectors to final, which should give you time to descend.

    Now look at the HEINZ transition. Roughly 34 miles to descend from 10,000 to 3000. You’re going to get vectors, and the FAFs are all at 3000. Easy descent.

    Of course, you always fly the altitudes assigned by ATC. If you think you need to start descending, let them know.

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  2. John D Collins on Apr 12, 2019

    The altitudes charted along the legs are MEA, not crossing restrictions. Altitudes charted at fixes are crossing restrictions. In this case, the crossing restriction at NESTO is just an expect crossing restriction and is there for vertical planning, but not actually a crossing restriction unless part of the clearance. There are multiple runways served by the procedure, so the clearance has to include the runway assignment for the pilot to know which path to select. The runway should be provided well before the arrival clearance so that the pilot can select it in the GPS or FMS. A typical clearance might be: Cleared Demme Three Arrival, Indian Head Transition, Runway 10 left, descend and maintain 4000, cross NESTO at 10,000. This would take you along the lateral path Since this procedure does not have crossing restrictions, the Descend Via would not be used.

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