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6 Answers

Overflight of military Class C

Asked by: 2234 views Airspace

Recently I was flying XC with my CFI, and we happened to be routed to pass right over top of a Naval Air Station. We were on flight following with the associated Class C approach controller, but we were above his airspace (ends at 4,000 MSL and we were at 4,500).

Shortly before we would have passed over the runways of the NAS, we got a terse instruction: "N123AB, DO NOT fly directly over the Naval Air Station." Of course, I acknowledged and turned aside, no problem. (He has F-18s. Of course I complied! )

But, it got me thinking. This is purely for curiosity, I wouldn't NOT comply with that instruction, but: did he technically have a right to tell me to turn aside, if I'm VFR in Class E airspace? Would I have been within my rights to terminate traffic advisories and continue?

For anyone who wants to look, it was at 4,500 MSL over KNUW.

 

Thanks!

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6 Answers



  1. KDS on Mar 06, 2019

    I might be missing something, but I cannot think of any authority he would have to direct you not to fly over at that altitude.

    Controllers are supposed to give you the reason for changes unless the traffic load is such that doing so would interfere with their duties. For example “Turn left twenty degrees to avoid traffic” as opposed to “Turn left twenty degrees”. If he was making a request, the word request should have been in there.

    I think I’d have to chalk that one up to what I once heard an FAA inspector say. People were complaining about controllers doing things incorrectly in a public meeting. He responded by saying “Just remember, they only have to get 70 percent on their test too”. That’s not exactly correct, but the underlying intent is there.

    You might want to send a letter to the controlling agency and ask the question.

    But, I’m also curious. What did your CFI who was with you at the time say about it?

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  2. mtn335 on Mar 07, 2019

    KDS – I turned first, then said, “Aren’t we over the ceiling of the Charlie?” His response was basically, yes, but generally you should comply it’s safe, even when they’re wrong.”

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  3. Russ Roslewski on Mar 07, 2019

    91.123:
    (b) Except in an emergency, no person may operate an aircraft contrary to an ATC instruction in an area in which air traffic control is exercised.

    Note it doesn’t say “in controlled airspace”. Air Traffic Control is clearly being exercised in this Class E airspace (and you specifically requested radar service), so no, you may not just ignore the ATC instructions.

    Yes, you can terminate radar service. However, it is also possible he could deny that request.

    I am kind of puzzled by the “don’t fly over the NAS” request/command though – I have flown directly over military installations many times under the control of ATC – sometimes it’s just on your route of flight. Unless they are in Restricted airspace (like Edwards), it’s all public-use airspace.

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  4. mtn335 on Mar 07, 2019

    Russ – yes, of course (which is why I complied first); I’m not asking if I can just ignore him–obviously that’s contrary to regulations–but whether I could terminate advisories at that time. (Not that I would – zero reason to. Academic curiosity.)

    I’d never considered that a controller could refuse to terminate advisory service! Nice nugget there, thank you!

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  5. KDS on Mar 07, 2019

    Hmmmmmm …….. I don’t know that I agree with that, but it’s certainly an interesting subject.

    Just for everyone’s education, why don’t you write to the facility and get their written response and let us know what they say.

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  6. John D Collins on Mar 09, 2019

    I strongly suspect the controller had a good reason at the time. Had you been overflying the C without using ATC for flight following, it would have been perfectly legal to directly overfly the airport at 4500 MSL. With ATC providing you services, they would have taken the entire traffic situation into consideration.

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