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8 Answers

61.109

Asked by: 4644 views FAA Regulations

I have a question regarding 61.109

I reccomended a student for his Private Pilot ASEL checkride. But the examiner discontinued the checkride for the following reason.

The student has 3 hours of hood time, however .3 of those hours were done during his night crosscountry which was a flight of 3.0 hours.

The examiner said that the applicant needs .3 hours at night due to the fact that the .3 hood was done at night thus rendering on 2.7 night.

I am sort of confused as to who is on the correct side.

Can the 3 hours hood time be combined into the 3 hours night flight or are they 2 different things altogether.

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8 Answers



  1. Ron Klutts on Feb 18, 2019

    In most logbooks IFR, Simulated IFR and night are under a section labeled “Conditions of Flight” You are simply noting what the conditions are for the flight. What if you were in IMC with your CFI? That doesn’t negate that your still flying at night.

    What if it was a split day to night x/c and you logged hood time? There’s no provision for day hood or night hood time.

    So I believe the DPE is wrong as your just noting the conditions of the flight. Call your local FSDO too.

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  2. AV8R on Feb 18, 2019

    I called FSDO and they said the examiner is right because there has been an interpretation written about that regulation.
    Another renowned CFI and author also said the same thing that there has been a legal interpretation to that reg. But I haven\’t found it. If someone knows about it would like to read it.

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  3. Kris Kortokrax on Feb 18, 2019

    The examiner is wrong. The FSDO is wrong. The renowned instructor and author is wrong.

    See this legal interpretation:

    https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/data/interps/2011/sun%20-%20(2011)%20legal%20interpretation.pdf

    It clarifies the FAA position on simultaneously logging night and instrument time during the night cross country flight for the Commercial rating. It notes that at a prior time, there had been a requirement for the Commercial cross country flights to be done under VFR. That requirement was removed in 2009. There is no longer a requirement for the X-C to be done under VFR.

    Similarly, there is no wording in 61.109 requiring that the night cross country flight be performed under VFR.

    While I would not condone combining all of the simulated instrument training with cross country training, I could see where .3 flight time during a night cross country flight could be spent learning to track a VOR radial. In fact, night time makes a better environment for instrument training (no cues from moving shadows).

    I have always taken the stance that I do not believe anything that anyone tells me, unless they can back it up with a reference that I can see, read & understand. Ask the examiner, FSDO, renowned CFI to please provide you with a copy of the legal interpretation to which they are referencing.

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  4. KDS on Feb 18, 2019

    The examiner is Double Wrong if he discontinued the check for that reason. Examiners are to determine if the applicant is eligible to take the best BEFORE beginning the test. You cannot discontinue something that hasn’t been started. That’s above and beyond what has been stated earlier.

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  5. Kris Kortokrax on Feb 18, 2019

    I gave the DPE the benefit of the doubt. Figured that “discontinued” was the instructor’s word and that the DPE probably did not issue a Letter of Discontinuance. If he did, then he is indeed in need of some remedial training.

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  6. KDS on Feb 18, 2019

    As would be whoever listened to the story at the FSDO and failed to take corrective action.

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  7. KDS on Feb 18, 2019

    However, just to get further off the subject, I’ll add this. Were I the FAA Administrator (and don’t hold your breath waiting for that to happen), I’d change the rules. Anytime a CFI signed off an applicant for a check without the applicant having the necessary requirements of the test, I’d have the CFI go through a 44709 reexamination.

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  8. AV8R on Feb 18, 2019

    I’m sorry if I caused confusion by the word discontinued
    They had not started the test but we’re going through checking all the documents.

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