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4 Answers

Logging time in an aircraft if you aren’t typed in it

Asked by: 2484 views ,
Commercial Pilot, FAA Regulations

My son is a USAF F-16 pilot, about to apply for the airline.  He is ATP-rated for MEL, commercial for SEL.  Over the next few months, he will be flying in the right seat of a CJ3 (Cessna 525B) while I fly it to/from locations in the U.S.  (I'm single-pilot rated).

The idea is for him to gain airline/CMR experience in the flight levels, to further expand his resume.

He is not typed in the CJ series, so cannot log PIC or SIC time.  Is there a way he can legally log this flying experience in his logbook, or otherwise document it for the purposes of applying to an airline?

I am current as an MEI.  Can I log dual given, and can he log dual received on these flights?

Thank you in advance.

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4 Answers



  1. Kris Kortokrax on Dec 26, 2018

    You haven’t included enough information for me to offer an opinion, but I will anyway. Just can’t zero in on your specific circumstances.

    For instance, when you are flying the airplane “to/from locations in the US”, are you flying under Part 135 (doubtful, since the operator shouldn’t/wouldn’t authorize your son to occupy a crew seat. Also, you couldn’t give/log instruction while on a 135 flight).

    Are you flying for a Part 91 corporate operation? Would they allow instruction to take place while flying their executives around?

    An easier situation would be if you own the airplane and are flying it for your own use.

    Even then, you could give your son instruction to fly the CJ3 (T/Os, Landings, S/E ops, stalls, steep turns, etc.), but how much instruction? He should pick it up fairly quickly. The thing that I have seen logged in the past is, one competent pilot flying with another and logging dual X-C. You could make the case for a couple of flights in the CJ3, but after that, what could you be teaching him?

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  2. Kris Kortokrax on Dec 26, 2018

    There will be those who will suggest giving him instruction under 61.55, to qualify him as an SIC.

    However, there is a legal interpretation that says if you are rated as a single PIC and flying under Part 91, you cannot use an SIC unless the autopilot is inoperative.

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  3. flash on Dec 26, 2018

    Kris,

    Thank you for wading in; I’ll try to provide more detail. The plane is Part 91, privately owned. I fly as a private contractor.

    One question is that the FARs talk about an “authorized instructor”. What does it take to become “authorized” as an instructor in a CJ3? I’m required to be typed to fly as PIC; am I also required to have a similar type-authorization to instruct? Can I log “Dual given” in the CJ while flying for hire under Part 91? Can any ATP/MEL pilot receive instruction in a CJ, and if so how does that person log the time?

    The objective is to give instruction in areas unique to flying in an environment similar to that of a Part 121 operation. RVSM would be one example, as would training in FMS ops.

    Thoughts? And again, thanks in advance.

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  4. KDS on Dec 26, 2018

    If you hold a CFI, you can give instruction and he can log it as dual received. If you don’t, then you can still teach him anything you want, but he cannot log it.

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