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5 Answers

Solo endorsement for night flight restricted cert

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FAA Regulations

This one has me scratching my head. I have a private pilot who got his certificate back in the days when it was possible to get a night-flight restricted certificate. It is not related to the Alaska exemption. 

Regs and FSims are clear about how to get the exemption removed. However, it stands to reason that if I can sign a student pilot off to solo at night I ought to be able to sign a private pilot off to solo at night. Unfortunately what "stands to reason" doesn't always exist in the FAA's world.

I see several things mentioned in 14 CFR 61.31 but nothing comes close to this scenario. Any ideas? Are we out of luck regarding an endorsement? Would 61.87(o) work even though it looks like it only applies to a student pilot?

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5 Answers



  1. Kris Kortokrax on Aug 21, 2018

    I have a copy of the regs from 1981. It says that a pilot who has the “Night flying prohibited” limitation may have it removed if he shows that he has three hours of night instruction including 10 takeoffs and landings.

    You cannot issue an endorsement to override a limitation.

    I would say get the required dual instruction, then go to his FSDO to have the limitation removed.

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  2. Nibake on Aug 21, 2018

    I continued to look and found information supporting the idea that the student pilot endorsements can’t be used for anyone other than a student pilot. Looks like he is stuck until he can get to an examiner/FSDO. :facepalm:

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  3. KDS on Aug 21, 2018

    I got you beat Kris. I had a copy of the regulations from 1968. Every once in a while I’d pull them out and deadpan a “let me check the regulations” routine. The funniest thing was we once got to talking about how often the VOR checks had to be done “back then” and that old set of regulations came in handy for showing the answer in print.

    Nibake, you can sign a student off to solo at night, but you cannot sign a student off to carry passengers at night. That’s part of the reason why it does stand to reason that you cannot add ratings or remove limitations on a private pilot certificate.

    If your issue is that the airman needs to present himself at the FSDO and that is a long way away, there are alternate methods. You just need to call the FSDO and talk with an inspector. It’s becoming more common every day for inspectors to work from remote offices and there may be one near you or an inspector will be in the field in that area. It’s also possible that an inspector would authorize an examiner (DPE) who is in your geographic area to remove the restriction. Either way, always call before you go to the FSDO. I’ve known of cases where people just showed up without prior coordination and not been able to accomplish what they wanted to do for one reason or another.

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  4. Kris Kortokrax on Aug 23, 2018

    Actually, KDS, I am looking at the regs I used when I started flying in 1970. They were part of the package from Sanderson Films (before they merged with Jeppesen) and contain a statement that the regs are current as of March 16, 1968.

    I just knew from personal experience that they didn’t have the language concerning night flying and the limitation that Nibake referenced and so I referenced the 1981 version.

    I looked back at my log and see that I had .6 night dual and 3 landings in October, 1970. It was not required, but we did it. There was no limitation placed on my certificate in 1971 concerning night flying. That is something that came along later.

    Nibake, there should not be any real hardship, unless the Private pilot lives in a remote area. Order 8900.1 Volume 5, Chapter 1, Section 3 Paragraph 5-53b10 contains language allowing a DPE to remove a limitation from any certificate that he is authorized to issue. Just give him the required dual, fill out an 8710-1 and he can go to your local DPE. It will probably cost him, but if he goes to the FSDO, it will be free.

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  5. KDS on Aug 23, 2018

    Oh yeah! Well I have a copy of the rules when it included no flying with your spurs on.

    😉

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