250nm Cross country requirement for instrument rating

2 Answers

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   Russ Roslewski on Dec 28, 2016

   Wow. I have to assume there’s some serious miscommunication going on between your CFI and you on this, because there are many basic errors in what you are telling us he told you.

   61.65d is pretty short and doesn’t have lots of cross-references that some sections have, so it’s pretty straightforward and contains everything you need to know.

   Since all your questions are about the IFR cross-country, here is the relevant part of 61.65d:

   “(ii) Instrument flight training on cross country flight procedures, including one cross country flight in an airplane with an authorized instructor, that is performed under instrument flight rules, when a flight plan has been filed with an air traffic control facility, and that involves –

   (A) A flight of 250 nautical miles along airways or by directed routing from an air traffic control facility;

   (B) An instrument approach at each airport; and

   (C) Three different kinds of approaches with the use of navigation systems.”

   Question 1: “What is the required leg distance for the longest leg of the flight? I was told by my CFII it has to be at least 100nm for one leg of the flight, but I’ve seen others online say it needs to be only 50nm.”

   Nowhere in 61.65d does it specify a minimum leg length, either 100nm or 50 nm. The total distance of the flight has to be greater than 250 nm. However, it is also a cross-country, so the 61.1 definition of of XC applies, and you have to have a landing at least 50 nm away from where you started, regardless of how you got to that point.

   Question 2: “61.65 says the flight must be with an instructor but my instructor told me I can do the flight with a safety pilot that holds a current Instrument rating.”

   Notice in 61.65d(ii) above, it says “Instrument flight training…with an authorized instructor.” I don’t think it can be much clearer than that. It has to be a dual, instructional flight with a CFII.

   Question 3: “My instructor said the flight needs to be conducted under VMC. This is confusing because 61.65 appears that I must be on an IFR flight plan.”

   Notice nowhere in 61.65d does it state that this flight has to be VMC. That would be silly, the best IFR training is in IMC and I (and many other instructors) actively try to find IMC especially on this XC. Yes, you must be on an IFR flight plan.

   Question 3a: “If so, what difference does it make if I’m VMC or IMC? I’ll be with an instructor or Instrument rated safety pilot.”

   It makes no difference, you will be on an IFR flight plan, with a CFII, and you should happily look for IMC.

   Note that for this flight, whether it’s going to be in VMC or IMC, it is going to be on an IFR flight plan, and therefore your CFII needs to be current for IFR. If he is not, that’s a separate issue.

   Like I said, there has to be some big miscommunication here, because these are pretty basic requirements that every CFII should be very familiar with. I’d check with him again and clarify. (For instance, the long XC for the Commercial does not have to be dual, it is usually done solo. And the required dual XC’s for Commercial used to have to be VMC but now it can be IMC or VMC. Maybe he was accidentally getting the requirements confused with those for Commercial?)

   You didn’t specify whether you were enrolled in a Part 61 or Part 141 program, but even if you are Part 141, Part 141 Appendix C has almsot identical wording and the requirements are exactly the same.

   +9 Votes 10 Votes  1 Votes

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   sp_72 on Dec 28, 2016

   Russ, thanks so much for the detailed answer and clarification!!! I will check with my CFI to clear it up and get on the same page.

   PS – I have done a bit of IMC flying during my training. Lots of fun but very challenging. Not remotely the same as having the foggles on 🙂

   +3 Votes 3 Votes  0 Votes