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Can I log hours as a second pilot without aircraft endorsement?

Asked by: 2142 views Commercial Pilot, Helicopter

Hi all,

I currently hold a Commercial Rotary Wing License, with endorsement for the UH-60. I recently flew with a commercial pilot in his R44 and I'm curious if I can log any time and how to log it without having the R44 endorsement. Thanks!

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2 Answers



  1. Gary Moore on Nov 21, 2016

    well – you can \\\’log\\\’ anything you want. I think your question is can that time count for a currency requirement….

    I\\\’m not familiar with specific helicopter endorsement requirements – hopefully someone else can jump in….

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  2. Russ Roslewski on Nov 21, 2016

    Did you actually manipulate the controls? (You weren’t clear, you just said you flew with him.)

    If no, then you can’t log anything. Unless I suppose you were acting as a safety pilot while the other pilot was flying under the hood.

    If yes, then you were probably technically in violation of SFAR 73, just by the act of manipulating the controls. SFAR 73 states that you “may not manipulate the controls of a Robinson R-22 or R-44 helicopter” unless you’ve had the awareness training and endorsement. Even for experienced and rated pilots in other helicopters.

    Note it doesn’t read “may not act as PIC” like many of the “normal” endorsements, especially those for airplanes. It actually prohibits anyone from flying the helicopter, period, with or without another pilot on board, without the endorsement.

    If the aircraft in this case was, say, a Bonanza and you didn’t have the appropriate endorsements (high performance and complex), but flew with your friend and handled the controls, it is well established that yes, you could log PIC even though you couldn’t act as PIC.

    However, in this case due to the different wording, you are not permitted to handle the controls, and therefore it would be foolish, in my opinion, to log anything (which would be you documenting evidence of a violation).

    Note: Although I am a Commercial-rated Helicopter pilot, and was very familiar with SFAR 73 at the time of my training, I haven’t flown or had anything to do with helicopters since 2009, so I hope my knowledge is still current and correct.

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