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2 Answers

CFI splitting costs & building time with student

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FAA Regulations, Flight Instructor

Let's say that I know a rated pilot who is looking to build flight time (let's suppose they're not training for any particular rating), and I'm a flight instructor who wants to build flight time for my ATP.

Suppose we agree to do a long flight across the United States to build flight time.

If the flight is intended to provide the pilot with instruction on this cross country, in addition to us both building flight time, and the student does the flying, I believe that we can both log the flight time as PIC (he's sole manipulator; I'm providing dual instruction).  Do you agree with this?

Now for costs.  Would we both be able to split the costs of renting the airplane since we have a common purpose to build flight time and to gain the experience of flying across the country?

What if there is a third pilot passenger in the back?  Would it be legal for them to contribute to the rental costs for the legs that they are not flying?

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2 Answers



  1. Russ Roslewski on Apr 20, 2016

    I’ll answer your first question.

    Yes, as you know, by the regulations you as a CFI can log PIC anytime you are acting as an authorized instructor. The question then becomes more of an “ethical” one (though I am perhaps using that term a little loosely).

    Are you actually providing instruction to someone that needs it, about something that they need instruction in? If so, then there’s no problem. But if you’re really just going along for the ride and there is no (or minimal) actual instruction taking place, then it’s more of a question of “is it PROPER to log PIC time”. That’s probably a question only you can answer.

    Of course, there’s no requirement that somebody be training for a rating, or working on a flight review in order to receive actual training. I’ve often gone on flights with former students who want some brushing up on various topics (even XC flight planning).

    So, I’d say if you’re going to log it as “CFI” PIC, make sure you’re actually teaching him something. Maybe it’s iPad use, or Class B operations, or something. No, it doesn’t have to be constant talking, but IMO there should be some substantial material being covered to warrant a CFI logging PIC. (In other words, just saying “more right rudder” every once in a while doesn’t cut it, to me.)

    If, instead, you’re really just along for the ride, then you are not using your CFI certificate, you are just two pilot friends going for a flight and you do whatever you would have done as two Private Pilots.

    Also, remember the rule about a maximum of 8 hours of flight instruction in any 24 hour period. Easy to forget since you don’t often fly that many hours when it’s in 1-hour instruction blocks, but you might in a long XC flight.

    I don’t know of any Chief Counsel interpretations on this subject, and I’m sure I wouldn’t want to see the question asked!

    I’m not going to touch the other questions. The confusing FAA interpretations on those topics in recent years make my head hurt, so I’ll leave it to someone else.

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  2. Mark Kolber on Apr 21, 2016

    Russ, I think you gave a great answer.

    As a true \”instructional\” flight, the student could pay the CFI and also pay 100% of the cost of the airplane. So the first question which you go into in some detail is whether this is truly instructional or is just a sham. Calling it instruction so both can log the time, like the two CFIs who repeatedly gave each other dual so they could bot build their multi time, an ended up getting all their certificates revoked for logbook falsification 1993 FAA vs. Pearson & Crowe.

    OTOH, the fact that it is a long cross country certainly does not automatically mean it is not dual. I\’ve know situations in which a pilot purchase a fast high performance airplane (even a jet) with insurance requirements for extended dual, with many of the training flights being dual cross countries that were truly across the US for business meetings, etc. Probably not too much of a problem with that.

    But here we have a scenario in which the stated purpose is building time. Seems more like the two CFIs in the revocation case than the Citation purchaser meeting insurance requirements, doesn\’t it?

    Now let\’s add the extra passenger who obviously cares nothing about building time. So is the choice of destination his, as in \”My friend George wants to go to the shore; we can take him there an build time for both of us in the process if we call it instruction.\”

    What does that sound like? Is this just a grey charter transportation flight?

    Or maybe it is the legitimate splitting of flight expenses among three friends spending the weekend at the beach? But if that\’s the case, why is it an instructional flight?

    I guess my real point is that you can\’t answer the question. You can\’t create a scenario like this and get a black and white answer. Assuming the FAA gets wind of it, say because there\’s an accident, and some question arises about who and where and why (with a now-unhappy and perhaps injured passenger), there\’s plenty of questions to ask.

    None of them are in the scenario as presented so while it\’s kind of fun as a purely academic exercise of SOGTI, there is no answer than anyone can rely upon.

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