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CFI log XC for ATP rating during a lesson with a student ?

Asked by: 2441 views FAA Regulations, Flight Instructor

Quick question. As a CFI 

If I fly further than 50nm (point in space) with my student during a lesson and teach maneuvers on the way there and back with my student during a lesson would this be acceptable ? I teach scenario based training so we keep busy during the lesson and we cover all the tasks on a particular day given with a student that we set to accomplish. So  would the airlines accept it as cross country time? 

 

Takeoff would be be at home airport fly over 50nm and then return back to home airport. No other stops (landings) made 

Official reg definition for ATP xc is flight 50nm from the point of origin. using pilotage and navigation NO landing required

3 Answers



  1. jeff on Mar 31, 2016

    Indont see why not, as long as you are PIC of record on those flights. 61.159 outlines the requirements for aeronatical experience.

    “……(5) 250 hours of flight time in an airplane as a pilot in command, or as second in command performing the duties of pilot in command while under the supervision of a pilot in command, or any combination thereof, which includes at least—

    (i) 100 hours of cross-country flight time; and

    (ii) 25 hours of night flight time.”

    So my read is that you can use those flghts toward your 100 hours of x-country experience as lomg as you are PIC (which I am assumming you are given the senerio you gave.

    Jeff

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  2. Dave M on Mar 31, 2016

    I think that as long as you can show that you have all the time (XC, Night, Instrument, etc) needed for the ATP (or restricted ATP), then you should be fine. That’s the minimum the airlines really care about: will you be able to receive your ATP when you finish their training? Hours in their simulator can count towards your rating.

    I’m not sure about the 50NM without requiring a landing. I seem to recall that was what airlines required before they needed you to have an ATP. I guess it depends on how you define cross-country. 61.1(b) defines cross-country time as, “(i)(C) That includes a landing at a point other than the point of departure; ” I think that the ATP part of 61.1 that says, “(vi)(B) That is at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; ” still requires you to comply with the earlier part.

    I think the part of 61.159 that Jeff points out above only refers to the cross country time in an airplane (i.e. you could use your helicopter XC towards your atp) that is required. 61.159 (a)(1) still requires you to have a total of 500 hours XC.

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  3. Russ Roslewski on Mar 31, 2016

    Dave M, you’re missing some key words in 61.1(b), “Cross Country time means”

    right here:

    —
    …(i) Except as provided in paragraphs (ii) through (vi) of this definition,
    —

    (vi) does not require a landing (the other paragraphs do). Therefore, a landing is not required for the XC to count towards an ATP rating, but it does have to be greater than 50nm.

    This is often referred to as the “military pilot” clause, since military missions can have the aircraft navigating thousands of miles but returning to home base at the end. But it applies to the civilian sector as well.

    So to answer the original question, yes that time counts as XC for the ATP (but not for other ratings or, for example, for Part 135 minimums which require a landing somewhere else, just not necessarily greater than 50 nm away).

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