Logging Ground Instruction Time

8 Answers

1. 
   

   
   

   John D Collins on Nov 29, 2014

   The flight instructor is required to sign the logbook for any ground or flight instruction given, I normally do this in the comments portion of the log entry. Some logbooks have separate sections for this. There isn’t a standard way for accomplishing this, however, it is the instructor responsibility to endorse the student’s logbook for ground or flight instruction given.

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2. 
   

   
   

   Jim F. on Nov 29, 2014

   Of my two dozen or so instructors, I’ve never had an hour of ground logged, and I’ve had no trouble working through the ranks at an airline. Early in my training, I do remember being told that the instructor’s endorsement to take the check-ride or flight review sign-off was essentially their logbook entry certifying the required ground training was completed, so a separate “ground training” column wasn’t required.

   However, for the true legal interpretation, I’d definitely go by what John said…

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3. 
   

   
   

   Mark Kolber on Nov 30, 2014

   It really doesn’t take much “legal interpretation” to figure that

   “A flight instructor must sign the logbook of each person to whom that instructor has given flight training or ground training”

   means

   “A flight instructor must sign the logbook of each person to whom that instructor has given flight training or ground training”

   😉

   61.189

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4. 
   

   
   

   Russ Roslewski on Dec 01, 2014

   Up until my CFI training, none of myu instructors had ever entered any ground training in my logbook either. The CFI I used for my CFI training insisted on it, and entered each ground lesson from the syllabus in the back of the book – pointing out that 61.189 required it, and some FSDO inspectors and DPEs were starting to require it.

   While that may or may not have been just limited to that area of the country, I have adopted that technique and do log ground training in my students’ logbook.

   My personal method is this: if we’re discussing a topic that’s on the knowledge test, I log it. If it’s just a discussion on how to do a manuever, I usually don’t. So, classroom-type instruction, log it, OJT-type instruction, I don’t bother. For example, I’d log a lesson on METARs and TAFs or aerodynamics, but not “here’s how you do a steep turn” or normal pre-flight/post-flight discussion. But that’s just my personal method, and not supported or rejected by any official guidance that I’m aware of.

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5. 
   

   
   

   Kris Kortokrax on Dec 22, 2014

   Jim,

   I seriously doubt that you have worked through the ranks at an airline and never had an hour of ground training logged.

   You may have gotten through part 61 ratings without fulfilling the regulatory requirements to log ground training.

   However, any air carrier has a requirement to give its pilots indoc training, Hazmat training, CRM training and aircraft specific ground training to name a few. There is also a requirement for them to log that training time.

   Whoever told you that an endorsement suffices and that ground training need not be documented is wrong.

   There is a legal interpretation that deals with logging ground and flight training.

   http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/pol_adjudication/agc200/interpretations/data/interps/2012/cleveland%20-%20%282012%29%20legal%20interpretation.pdf

   Also, on pages 7-35 and 7-36 of the current version of Order 8900.2, there is a requirement for an examiner to look at the applicant’s logbook and determine that all required training (ground and flight) is present.

   The only reason why lazy flight instructors don’t properly log ground training is because ground training doesn’t count for PIC time and is of no use to them in satisfying the requirements for flight time to be hired by an airline.

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6. 
   

   
   

   Mark Kolber on Dec 24, 2014

   I think the reality is that the requirement to log ground training is often violated by CFIs. IMO i’s because dedicated ground schools and home study have become so prevalent. In those situations, logging ground takes the form of a certificate of completion or other statement of accomplishment. This may or may not ever appear in the pilot’s logbook.

   So, even if the flight instructor never endorses one minute of ground instruction, the typical applicant has met the ground training requirements. Practically speaking, the issue just doesn’t come up.

   That could be what Jim is referring to when he says he never had an hour of ground training logged – it was all done by flight school programs with records of ground training completion other than the pilot’s logbook.

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7. 
   

   
   

   Kris Kortokrax on Dec 24, 2014

   The interpretation deals with that scenario. It states that logging ground time is not necessary if the student completes a home study course. That would make sense, because the instructor is not giving the ground training. The entity (computer or DVD or whatever medium is being used) is giving the instruction.

   The interpretation also deals with the idea that one must give and log ground training for things such as “here’s how you do a steep turn” (61.107 stuff). I would guess that the interpretation would extend to any situation occurring in Part 61 where it states that one must RECEIVE and LOG GROUND and FLIGHT training.

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8. 
   

   
   

   Mark Kolber on Dec 24, 2014

   I know it does, Kris. It was explanation, not disagreement.

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