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13 Answers

Powered Glider

Asked by: 5488 views Private Pilot

A person has a ASEL & Glider rating, is there a additional rating for powered glider or maybe just a logbook endorsement? I can't find anything in FAR's.

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13 Answers



  1. Kris Kortokrax on Jul 20, 2014

    It’s an endorsement. See 61.31(j)

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  2. DeWitt Barker on Jul 20, 2014

    Kris, thanks, I agree with 61.31(j) that additional training may be required but I don’t think the endorsement for any of these sections is appropriate. There no reason he can’t take off & land under power.

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  3. Kris Kortokrax on Jul 20, 2014

    The term “powered glider” is just another way of describing a self-launched glider. If a person wishes to fly a powered glider, he must possess a glider rating and an endorsement for self-launch procedures.

    The ASEL rating is irrelevant.

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  4. DeWitt Barker on Jul 20, 2014

    Kris,
    The ASEL rating is irrelevant. Is this your opinion or a regulation.

    Look up a picture of a Grob-109b Powered Glider and tell me you don’t need a ASEL and a Glider rating if you plan on feathering the prop in flight to fly this. I’m just a little confused.

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  5. Kris Kortokrax on Jul 20, 2014

    You have called the Grob 109b a glider. If you look at the Type Certificate Data Sheet, you will see that the Grob 109b is a glider. An aircraft cannot be in two different categories. One may not fly a glider with an ASEL rating. One needs a Glider rating. That is why the ASEL is irrelevant.

    In order to act as pilot in command of a glider utilizing self-launch procedures, one needs the endorsement according to 61.31. You are not using aero tow and you are not using ground launch. That leaves self-launch.

    If you require a legal opinion, you need to call the Office of Legal Counsel in Washington.

    (202) 267-3222

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  6. LTCTerry on Jul 20, 2014

    Kris is correct all three times.

    A glider requires a glider certificate. Each method of launch – ground launch, aero tow, or self-launch – is added by an endorsement.

    An ASEL might help, but is completely irrelevant for a G109, Stemme S10, any other configuration.

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  7. DeWitt Barker on Jul 21, 2014

    Thanks for all the answers but it really lends itself to more questions about the legality of operating a powered glider as a powered airplane with only a glider rating in let’s say a class C airspace & airport and never using it as a glider. I bet some Zealous FAA Inspector would interpret this differently.

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  8. Kris Kortokrax on Jul 21, 2014

    What you are failing to understand is that even though the Grob 109b has a fuselage, wings, empennage and an engine, it is not considered to be an airplane by the FAA. It is considered to be a glider and as such, the only appropriate rating required to fly it is a glider rating.

    Aircraft ratings are not issued based on whether you will be flying in Class C airspace.
    Neither are they issued based on whether you will shut off the glider’s engine and rely on thermals, ridge soaring or mountain wave to sustain flight.

    You would lose the bet concerning the zealous FAA inspector.

    What is interesting is that you pose a question, presumably based on your not knowing the answer. When the answer is given, you choose to ignore the answer. If you are looking for anyone on this website to agree with your ideas concerning this subject, you will not find anyone knowledgeable concerning the regulations who would agree with you. Neither will you find any agreement with your position if you call the Office of Legal Counsel.

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  9. DeWitt Barker on Jul 21, 2014

    Kris, I DO UNDERSTAND everything I am posting and many of the things I post are only food for thought.
    If you can’t respond in a positive manor I would rather you not respond to any of my post at all.
    I know exactly what the Grob is, I’m a A&P/IA for many years,
    Everybody is entitled to a opinion.

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  10. Kris Kortokrax on Jul 21, 2014

    Contrary to your assertion, it was apparent in your previous posts that you assumed that the Grob 109b could be flown with only an ASEL rating if one refrained from shutting down the engine and that if one did shut down the engine, then a glider rating would be required also. That is not the case.

    If you believe that I am not responding in a positive manner just because I disagree with you, you are mistaken. I am positive that you are wrong.

    You are also correct that everybody is entitled to an opinion. In this case, yours is wrong.

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  11. DeWitt Barker on Jul 21, 2014

    Read all my post here, no where did I say a glider rating wasn’t required, no where did I say you could fly a powered glider without a glider ration. Don’t assume I was asking permission to fly with ASEL only.
    As far as the bet about a over Zealous FAA Inspector, well I’ve been flying world wide for over 45 years and have meet & been ramp checked by many Over Zealous FAA Inspector, they do exist.

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  12. Kris Kortokrax on Jul 21, 2014

    I did read all your posts.

    In the second post you stated “tell me you don’t need a ASEL and a Glider rating if you plan on feathering the prop in flight to fly this.”

    This gives me the impression that you think you need ASEL to fly the Grob with the engine running and that you need a glider rating if you feather the prop. I did tell you that you don’t need an ASEL rating, but you apparently don’t believe me.

    In your third post you stated: “questions about the legality of operating a powered glider as a powered airplane with only a glider rating”

    This leads me to believe that you think that the craft somehow becomes an airplane when the engine is running and that one would need the ASEL rating because it is no longer a glider. The Grob is a glider whether the engine is running or not.

    I don’t know any other way to interpret the things you said.

    In this particular case, even though it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it’s not a duck.

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  13. DeWitt Barker on Jul 21, 2014

    I’m through, you wore me out, endorsement for 61.31(j) & maybe even (I) also, no ASEL, glider only for powered gliders.

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