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Logging training time with expired BFR

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Instrument Rating

I am a current CFII with a question from a friend of mine I could not answer. My friend owns an airplane and was given flight training a couple years ago towards his instrument rating with a CFII and sometimes used a safety pilot for BAIF hours. Unfortunately at some point during his training/flying he let his BFR expire. He assumed since he was in training for a new rating a BFR was not required. I explained that this was not true and that any solo flying done after the expiration of his BFR was not legal and would have to be removed from his logbook.

My question is, since he flew with a CFII and a safety pilot for the remainder of his flying can he count that flight time toward his instrument rating? (assuming it's not logged as PIC) I assume you don't need a BFR when you have a current CFII or safety pilot with you.

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1 Answers



  1. Matthew Waugh on Jul 29, 2010

    The time acquired when there was no PIC on board the aircraft is against the regulations, removing it from his logbook doesn’t make it any less against the regulations. But no use crying over spilt milk I suppose.

    You cannot assume that the CFII or a safety pilot are PIC. There are a variety of reasons why who is PIC should be sorted out before you go flying, but after the fact, assuming nothing went wrong then everybody is happy to be PIC if they were current to be PIC.

    You cannot assume that the CFII was legal to act as PIC, they PROBABLY were, most active CFII’s are going to stay current. You certainly can’t assume a safety pilot was PIC, it’s perfectly legal to be a safety pilot in aircraft in which you cannot act as PIC (retractable gear with no endorsement for example).

    Note that if there was a legal PIC on board the aircraft, and your friend was the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which he was rated then he can LOG PIC for those training/practice flights. Much has been written on the difference between LOGGING PIC and BEING PIC so we’ll leave that as an exercise for the reader, but suffice to say they are not the same thing, and in fact are barely related.

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