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Post-knowledge test endorsements

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Flight Instructor

Trying to figure out if I need endorsements for the knowledge areas I missed on FOI, AGI and FIA.

Part 61 has me confused here -

61.39

(6) Have an endorsement, if required by this part, in the applicant's logbook or training record that has been signed by an authorized instructor who certifies that the applicant—

(iii) Has demonstrated satisfactory knowledge of the subject areas in which the applicant was deficient on the airman knowledge test;

Emphasis mine. Under 61.183 there is no mention of needing an endorsement for this. So I thought I must not need one. But to confirm I looked to see if it was required under the section that talks about private pilot, and I didn't see the requirement there either. Is there something else I'm missing? As far as I can see only 3 endorsements are needed for the CFI practical test:

61.183

(d) Receive a logbook endorsement from an authorized instructor on the fundamentals of instructing listed in §61.185 of this part appropriate to the required knowledge test;

(g) Receive a logbook endorsement from an authorized instructor on the areas of operation listed in §61.187(b) of this part, appropriate to the flight instructor rating sought

(i)(1) Receive a logbook endorsement from an authorized instructor indicating that the applicant is competent and possesses instructional proficiency in stall awareness, spin entry, spins, and spin recovery procedures after providing the applicant with flight training in those training areas in an airplane or glider, as appropriate, that is certificated for spins;

Interestingly enough, the proctor's test-giving handbook says that no endorsement  is needed to take any of the CFI tests, which seems to conflict with (d) above, but that is a second question.

I'm sure the FAA examiner will be thorough so I want to have all of these things in order and crystal clear. Thanks

 

 

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5 Answers



  1. Mark Kolber on Feb 04, 2014

    61.39
    (6) Have an endorsement, if required by this part
    ***
    Under 61.183 there is no mention of needing an endorsement for this.

    Nor will you find a mention of needing that endorsement in the rules for any other certificate or rating.

    61.39 could be written better. All of the exemptions from (a)(6) are in 61.39 itself – in this case 61.39(e). CFI candidates are not listed, so the deficient knowledge test endorsement is not required.

    Interestingly enough, the proctor’s test-giving handbook says that no endorsement is needed to take any of the CFI tests, which seems to conflict with (d) above, but that is a second question.

    The proctor handbook is correct and there is no test taking endorsement required for any of the CFI tests. The 61.183(d) endorsement is an endorsement that training was given, not and endorsement to take the test. Compare the language in 61.105(d)(2) “Certified that the person is prepared for the required knowledge test.” with the language in 61.183

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  2. Cody Barringer on Feb 04, 2014

    Ok, thanks for pointing me to the paragraph with the exemptions there in a(6). I see the CFI is not listed there, so if the CFI NOT listed as exempt, it should be required, right?

    This was your quote “CFI candidates are not listed, so the deficient knowledge test endorsement is not required.”

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  3. Wes Beard on Feb 04, 2014

    The way it worked for me and my students was that a CFI endorsement was not required to take any CFI knowledge tests unless that student failed said test.

    On test day, I gave my students these endorsements. One each for the FOI knowledge test, CFI knowledge test, areas found deficient on those tests, prepared for practical test and two month preparation. Five specific endorsements to which I would combine as many as possible.

    It’s strange you need the knowledge test endorsements after the test but that is how it works in my area of the world.

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  4. Cody Barringer on Feb 04, 2014

    Ok. It’s not going to be too much trouble to get extra endorsements anyway since I need one for the aeronautical experience areas and I already looked up and wrote out all the knowledge area codes, but it would sure be nice to fully understand all the requirements since CFI is so different than other checkrides.

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  5. Mark Kolber on Feb 05, 2014

    Ok, thanks for pointing me to the paragraph with the exemptions there in a(6). I see the CFI is not listed there, so if the CFI NOT listed as exempt, it should be required, right?
    This was your quote “CFI candidates are not listed, so the deficient knowledge test endorsement is not required.”
    ==============================

    You are correct. I tossed an incorrect “not” in there. It should be, “CFI candidates are not listed, so the deficient knowledge test endorsement is required.

    Unlike Wes, I don’t find the dichotomy that strange. But it is interesting in that it makes sense: CFI candidates are deemed knowledgeable enough to be able to determine when they are ready to take the test, but once they prove they are deficient in some area, the deficiency endorsement is required.

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