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11 Answers

how much should the cfi touch the controls

Asked by: 6814 views
Student Pilot

i have about 45 hours working on my ppl, and it seems like my cfi is always moving the controls which hurts my confidence.  like on downwind, putting in 1st set of flaps, i am planning on holding the airplane level to hit 90k then fly the airspeed when i feel a push on the controls, and hear "you have to lower the nose with flaps", yet have not hit my airspeed yet.  is this normal?  this also happens on final, running at 70k, he is pushing on the controls.

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11 Answers



  1. Wes Beard on Mar 11, 2012

    In the very beginning it more common and acceptable for the CFI to “help” on the controls for important events such as takeoff and landing.  At your number of hours it would seem odd that the instructor isn’t letting you learn more by your mistakes than correcting them for you.  
     
    It would seem more appropriate for the CFI to teach you with your own examples and only correct on the controls whenever safety is an issue or the outcome of that event will not provide a teaching moment for you.  For example, if the landing you are performing is going to cause the airplane to exit the runway to the side, the CFI has an obligation to take over in the interest of safety.  If that same landing is going to result in a firmer than normal landing but have no other damage except an ego, the CFI should use it as a teaching example and let you fly it.  Another example, if you are practicing stalls and one of them starts into an incipient spin, the CFI may have to intervene in the interest of safety (too close to the ground, other traffic, etc.) but the student will be more apt to promptly correct the controls the next time if the event is allowed to continue.  
     
    This advice is predicated on the student having some experience in the airplane.  I certainly would not allow a student with little to no experience get themselves in that situation because there are no teaching moments.  I would be trying to explain to the student what happened and they would have no common experience to relate to.  As our pool of shared experiences increases, more teachable moments surface.  
     
    I would have a chat with your instructor and ask him why he gets on the controls so often and how that is hurting your confidence.  Perhaps you can come to an agreement on when it is acceptable for the instructor to jump on the controls.  It is more important for the CFI to use carefully crafted words to get the response they want from the airplane than it is for them to always correct the flight path themselves. 

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  2. John D. Collins on Mar 11, 2012

    As long as there is not a safety issue involved, the instructor should minimize their use of the controls at your stage of training. The instructor should primarily be using the controls when they are demonstrating something or correcting an error that if you don’t correct will have a safety consequence. Each instructor has to know their own limitations and not allow the flight situation to get out of hand; while at the same time they need to let you make and correct your mistakes. A verbal reminder at this point in your training is likely to be more effective at the time of the error or a discussion on the ground reviewing the situation.  There has to be a clear protocol when the student and instructor exchange the controls, preferably using the three message exchange: You have the controls, I have the controls, you have the controls.

     

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  3. Nathan Parker on Mar 11, 2012

    At 45 hours, it would be inappropriate with most students for the CFI to be manipulating controls without asking permission, unless the safety of flight were at risk.

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  4. Bill Trussell on Mar 11, 2012

    The standard is normally expressed as “the CFI should touch the controls only to “demonstrate” a point or to correct an error that, if left alone, would impact safety.” (my words)  I have been told by some of my students that I have a tendency to be on the controls too much.  I can assure all of them that I am not trying to be overcontrolling of the student but I am concerned about reenforcing bad habits through inaction or inattention.  I know also that my students are greatful for having me there when bad stuff happens, which is more than they think.
    I would think that it would be good for you to have a brief ground session with your instructor and go over your feelings on the subject.  If he/she is not responsive in a positive way to your feelings or is not willing to change as you gain more experience then it might be time to find a new instructor.

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  5. Brian on Mar 11, 2012

    I’d argue that there should only ever be one pilot. Learning to fly is a task of muscle memory. A CFI manipulating the controls while the student is performing a task is completely destroying that students ability to build muscle memory. 
     
    For instance, let’s arbitrarily state that it takes 10 pounds of pressure to round out and flare for landing. If the student pulls 8 and the instructor pulls 2 the students going to think it takes 8 to perform the task. The instructor will then get off the controls and the student won’t flare enough. Sound familiar instructors? 🙂
     
    What I do personally, and recommend other instructors do is either 1) take control or 2) if repeat verbal requests are ignored make a momentary abrupt input that emphasizes your verbal request.

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  6. n on Mar 12, 2012

    Well at 45 hours the CFI should not be touching anything, ALSO at 45hrs you should have your pattern work down to the point where there is nothing to say, so….
     
     Go fly with another CFI for one flight, that should let you know if it is you, your CFI, or maybe both

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  7. Matthew Waugh on Mar 12, 2012

    Concur on pretty much all. From hour 0 the instructor should only be on the controls:
    1. When demonstrating.
    2. When having you “follow-on the controls for something” – early stage landings etc.
    3. Saving the plane or people’s lives.
    At this stage you should pretty much only be looking at 3. Fly with another CFI – see what they say.
    There certainly are “nervous” CFIs out there – I guess they work for some people, but generally speaking I don’t think they are good teachers.

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  8. Micah on Mar 12, 2012

    I agree with all comments above. Some similar (maybe new) thoughts:
     
    Some “young” instructors (those with less experience) will not be as skilled at letting the student fly; I was certainly one of those instructors. It is a hard transition to spend 300 or so hours training how to master the airplane and then, with little introduction, to take your hands completely off the controls and with little more than your words to instruct someone else to do what you’ve learned.
     
    In all of flying, and certainly in all of instruction, good communication is necessary. But realize that good communication requires two participants. Tell your instructor that you want less control input from him/her; if you’re not doing this much, then you’re also at fault.
     
    Pilots have different personalities; for every “nervous instructor” there is at least one “passive student.” Maybe you’re taking “too long” to respond to the aircraft. I’m certain that you know that, as the pilot, you must be “ahead of the airplane” to fly it properly. As a 45-hour student, however, you are almost certainly not ahead of the airplane. If your personality is such that you respond slowly and cautiously, it might appear to the instructor that instead you are unaware or timid. At the very least, it will look like you are “two steps behind” when both you know that you should be ahead. Most flying requires quick, small adjustments; slow overreactions will almost certainly cause you pain of one sort or another.
     
    If you’re confident in your skills and actions and your instructor is still all over the flight controls, simply inform him/her that “I have the flight controls.” 
     
    I presume that you’ve flown all 45 hours with this instructor–if not then your instructor may still be learning you. Even so, your instructor may still be learning you; to instruct you properly, your instructor must understand (to some degree) what you’re thinking. He/she must let you make your own decisions and mistakes (within certain limits) and let you experience flying until you are both confident that can safely get it down on your own.

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  9. n on Mar 12, 2012

    I would be careful making the “young” instructor comment, I’ve run into plenty of old high time CFIs who were horrid and would never take their damn hands off the plane, I’ve gotten a few students that ditched these types of “seasoned” guys.  The thing that gets me is you will get these guys wanting to learn how to fly, they will go up to some hobby CFI who is in his late 50s to 60s and presume he is a old and wise sage, only to end up with a inept self proclaimed expert.
     
     With the people I’ve flown with, instructed, been instructed by, etc. Hours and time in the industry are a probably only 25% of the equation.  You have good and bad high and low time guys.

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  10. larry giles on Mar 15, 2012

    thank you for your thought, been at this off/on for about a year, solod at 16 hrs with cfi #1 and at 35 hrs with cfi #2, just seems like different ideas going on.  like cfi #1 was all about  speed in pattern, 90-80-70 on final, now theres not much enphasis, more on sight picture.  seems like when i like airspeed it all works out fine.  like the guy, just wondering if this is how it goes.

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  11. n on Mar 15, 2012

    Sight picture and feel > Mathematical paint by numbers

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