Student pilot solo endorsement for repeated flights between airports within 25nm distance, 61.93(b)(1)

6 Answers

1. 
   

   
   

   Craig on Oct 12, 2019

   You would definitely have to list the name of each airport in the endorsement. You could probably just have a single endorsement with both airport names for what’s in the brackets. For example,….at KAJR and KGVL.

   A.8 Solo takeoffs and landings at another airport within 25 nautical miles (NM):
   § 61.93(b)(1).

   I certify that [First name, MI, Last name] has received the required training of
   § 61.93(b)(1). I have determined that [he or she] is proficient to practice solo takeoffs and
   landings at [airport name]. The takeoffs and landings at [airport name] are subject to the
   following conditions: [List any applicable conditions or limitations.]

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2. 
   

   
   

   Mark Kolber on Oct 13, 2019

   The wording of the endorsement is poor. The endorsement calls for listing one airport – the one other than the one where training is based, but does not say where training is based. “Flights between” with two airports listed would make more sense.

   But even so, I am not sure it applies to your situation. The endorsement is talking about a student training at KAAA to be allowed to fly solo and back to KBBBB. Flights “between” those airports.

   It sounds like you are talking about two different airports where the pilot is training with the ability to solo at *each* of them. You mention two different airplanes, but in concept it could be two different instructors too. That seems more like two separate basic solo endorsements, one for each airport, whether those airports are 25 or 125 miles apart.

   If I understand your situation correctly, I would be thinking of three endorsements. Basic solo at KAAA, basic solo at KBBB, and flights between them and KCCC as appropriate using modified 25 nm cross country endorsement language,

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3. 
   

   
   

   Warren Webb Jr on Oct 14, 2019

   I would indicate each route approved with an additional comment since there are multiple starting points. The pre-printed endorsement in the logbook may be worded better and provide space for the starting point airport id.

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4. 
   

   
   

   KDS on Oct 15, 2019

   I tend to go along with what Mark wrote. Long ago a supervisor said to “always think how this is going to sound when we’re standing in front of a judge”. It would be comforting to be able to hold up a government publication and say “As you can see, this is what the government suggests and it matches what I wrote.”

   It wouldn’t hurt to make entries in the training record or logbook you document the training they received for each trip they might make.

   I also know a former National CFI of the Year who recommends adding a restriction on each solo endorsement such as “must receive verbal approval from me within XX hours of commencing such flight” or words to that effect.

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5. 
   

   
   

   Mark Kolber on Oct 16, 2019

   To add to KDS’ comment, I’ve known a good number of instructors who have used restrictions like that.

   Excellent idea. But the modern and better version of the “verbal approval” is messaging, where there is a record of the approval.

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6. 
   

   
   

   KDS on Oct 16, 2019

   As always, Mark Kolber adds a very valuable point. There is an old saying that “A verbal contract isn’t worth the paper it is written on”. Learning that after the fact is a hard way to learn the lesson. Perhaps the best example comes from a friend who is a full time aviation accident investigator. He has seen so many cases hinge on who was serving as pilot-in-command when two pilots flying together were killed that he ensures the other pilot signs a statement that he is pilot-in-command before he leaves the ground. Then he leaves the paper locked in his car when they go flying. His wife knows of his practice and where to find that paper should anything happen. I’ll have to mention Mark’s messaging suggestion to him.

   I had a somewhat related personal experience many years ago. I was flying with another CFI when something did happen. The incident closed the airport. We were both okay and walked over to the tower where they took information to start the report. They got to the question of “Who was the pilot-in-command”. Fortunately, the other CFI said he was, which is what we had briefed on ahead of time. But, before he spoke up, it hit me that I didn’t have anything but my word to prove who was the PIC.

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