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CFI Endorsements Questions

Asked by: 4086 views FAA Regulations, Flight Instructor

Just a few questions I am wondering. I am preparing for my CFI checkride and there are a few things I don't understand on the endorsements for the CFI checkride. Why in 61-65G do they have sample endorsements for the CFI and FOI written tests when an endorsement is not required to take those written tests?

Also, the reg states you have to receive and log ground training in prep for the practical test wouldn't a home study course (I used King) take care of that requirement like it does on the other certificates and ratings? They did not provide an endorsement like they usually do. When I asked King they told that they don't because an endorsement is not required to take the writtens...

I find the flight instructor endorsements overly complicated and contradictory just wondering if anyone has a definitive answer.

Thanks!  

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2 Answers



  1. KDS on Jun 19, 2018

    Your first question reminds me of an FAA Inspector who used to give presentations to pilots. Invariably, someone would as why does the FAA do such and such. His answer was often that he would not attempt to answer questions about why the FAA does anything because he had yet to figure it out himself. However, it could be that the sample is there to cover a possible future change in the rules or as a sample endorsement for a retest.

    Your second question about logging the ground training is a good one and I’ve seen that area debated at length. Here is my take on it (and not everyone agrees with me):

    If he instructor has a training record for the applicant and checks off when subjects are covered, and then later the applicant wants to say they were never taught something, they can’t be proven wrong. On the other hand, if the applicant has to log the ground training and the examiner has to verify that they did present a log showing they received it, then such a claim would be weak at best.

    Note that the regulation doesn’t say the applicant receives and the instructor logs. It says the applicant receives and logs.

    However, in many places, that isn’t the way it is done and life goes on. Then people do to others in the style that was done to them during their training and they are convinced they are correct.

    My advice is to go the belt and suspenders route. When ground instruction is given to have both the instructor and the student sign the record. That way no matter which side of the fence someone’s opinion rests, they will be satisfied with the way it was done.

    In your case, since it was self-study, you would be the only one signing the record. King is very correct in not providing you an endorsement. All they KNOW is that they sold you the course. They gave you a receipt to prove that. They didn’t watch you take the course.

    I can understand your view that you would see the endorsements as being overly complicated. Then again, it’s the government. There is a reason why I pay a CPA a lot of money to prepare my taxes every year and it isn’t because the government makes simple easy to follow rules.

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  2. Kris Kortokrax on Jun 21, 2018

    It’s not as complicated as is sounds. 61.185(a) lists subjects in which ground instruction is required. The fact that no endorsement is required for the knowledge test does not mean that you can skip the instruction. Order 8900.1, Volume 5, Chapter 2, Section 11, Paragraph 5-510 (H) (6) allows that the requirement for instruction logged, may be satisfied by evidence of completion of a home study course (i.e. your graduation certificate from King).

    Moving on, 61.187 states that you must receive and log, flight and ground training over the appropriate areas of operation in 61.187(b). There is no relief from this requirement provided by having complete the King course. All this training must be properly documented.

    Regarding the logging of training time, see 61.51(h). While you may apparently make the entry in the logbook, an instructor must endorse the training. As an instructor, I will always make the entries in a student’s logbook rather than having them do it. When I sign the endorsements and 8710-1, I am attesting that all instruction has been given. That is why I will always make the training entries in the student’s logbook or training record.

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