clearance limit

6 Answers

1. 
   

   
   

   R. Anderson on May 23, 2017

   I did not look at the approach chart, but here is what the AIM says at paragraph 4-4-3 e. 3:

   “If no holding pattern is charted and holding
   instructions have not been issued, the pilot should ask
   ATC for holding instructions prior to reaching the fix.
   This procedure will eliminate the possibility of an
   aircraft entering a holding pattern other than that
   desired by ATC. If unable to obtain holding
   instructions prior to reaching the fix (due to
   frequency congestion, stuck microphone, etc.), hold
   in a standard pattern on the course on which you
   approached the fix and request further clearance as
   soon as possible. In this event, the altitude/flight level
   of the aircraft at the clearance limit will be protected
   so that separation will be provided as required.”

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2. 
   

   
   

   R. Anderson on May 23, 2017

   Also, if ATC told you to go direct to DOWDY and then subsequently told you to expect the LOC 22, I would be inclined to start the approach. But since ATC told you to expect the LOC 22, and then subsequently cleared you direct to DOWDY and, you could not reach ATC because of freq. congestion, holding would be my choice as noted above. It’s not entirely clear, but since ATC is watching you, it’s likely you would get a clearance even at the last minute like you did.

   Probably interesting to see what others might do.

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3. 
   

   
   

   Ben E. on May 23, 2017

   I guess I should dispense with one of my initial assumptions–that this is a clearance limit. The original clearance limit was KCDW. Did it change when I was told to go direct to DOWDY, or was that just routing? If not a clearance limit then the holding rules for clearance limits don’t apply and then I’m not sure what the textbook answer is.

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4. 
   

   
   

   Jim F. on May 23, 2017

   It may not be/probably isn’t the right answer, but I would turn inbound; that’s clearly what’s intended. This happens pretty regularly in the real world, and I guarantee you that suddenly doing a 180 and pointing towards the inbound behind you would cause more trouble than just heading towards the field, as expected. I don’t think I’ve ever gotten a true “clearance limit” included when they send me to a fix on the approach without a “join the LOC” type addition…

   Now about your concern with your altitude lower than the MSA; The 3,000′ is looking at all obstacles within that 25nm circle from TEB. If you were gonna draw your own hold over DOWDY, you can see on the chart that there are no obstacles which would be of a concern around that fix, so you’d be good, from that aspect.

   Again, I’m pretty sure this isn’t the official answer, but the real-world differs greatly from the books and sim, so that’s where ADM comes in to play.

   I’m curious to hear what your instructors answer was.

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5. 
   

   
   

   R. Anderson on May 23, 2017

   Not sure there is a textbook answer. There are surely several methods of handling your question that could be legitimately argued and supported.

   Some might argue that you should follow lost comm procedures since you’re unable to communicate with ATC. Others may say that your clearance limit has changed from the airport to DOWDY, and then since your last ATC clearance ends at DOWDY, then follow the route ATC told you to expect (FAR 91.185), fly the LOC 22 approach.

   As a side note, MSA’s are often higher than the MVA’s (minimum vectoring altitude) in certain areas, so you should be fine at 2500 since the altitude at DOWDY is 2400. But excellent situational awareness on your part.

   Again, I personally don’t think there is a perfect answer to your hypothetical. A turn in a hold on the course you are on inbound to DOWDY, or start the approach (LOC22) you were told to expect – either one seems like a reasonable and safe course of action considering your circumstances (not the least of which is that the controller is watching you and likely had your sequence and separation are determined).

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6. 
   

   
   

   John Scarry on May 24, 2017

   6−4−1. Two-way Radio Communications Failure
   a. It is virtually impossible to provide regulations and procedures applicable to all possible situations associated with two-way radio communications failure. During two-way radio communications failure, when confronted by a situation not covered in the regulation, pilots are expected to exercise good judgment in whatever action they elect to take.

   While this isn’t a communication failure, it is close and the normal procedure would be Assigned, Vectored, Expected, and then Filed. Since you were told to expect the Localizer that’s what you should fly.

   This differs from one of the sample questions on the Knowledge Test:
   You have not yet been cleared for the approach, but you are being vectored to the ILS approach course. It is clear that you will pass through the localizer course unless you take action. You should
   A) turn outbound and complete the procedure turn.
   B) continue as assigned and query ATC.
   C) turn inbound and join the final approach course.

   In this case you should continue as assigned.

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