Glider add-on, no flight review

8 Answers

1. Best Answer
   
   

   
   

   Russ Roslewski on Dec 13, 2019

   You’re looking for a 61.31d endorsement for the solo operations.

   The pilot is not a student pilot, and can’t get a student pilot certificate.

   The recommended endorsement text is in AC 61-65H:

   A.72 To act as pilot in command of an aircraft in solo operations when the pilot does not
   hold an appropriate category/class rating: § 61.31(d)(2).

   I certify that [First name, MI, Last name] has received the training as required by
   § 61.31(d)(2) to serve as a pilot in command in a [specific category and class] of aircraft.
   I have determined that [he or she] is prepared to solo that [make and model] aircraft.
   Limitations: [optional].

   You will also need the 61.31j endorsement for type of tow.

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2. 
   

   
   

   Kris Kortokrax on Dec 13, 2019

   He will also need a flight review. See the Beard interpretation at this link:

   https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/Data/interps/2015/Beard%20-%20(2015)%20Legal%20Interpretation.pdf

   The flight review won’t be a useless endeavor. After 30 years, he would need instruction on current regs and procedures as well as a review of everything else. The flight portion should also help revive muscle memories for the maneuvers.

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3. 
   

   
   

   LTCTerry on Dec 14, 2019

   WINGS. You can use the FAA Wings program to get him 61.56 flight credit. Wings does not require that the training be in something you are already rated for. There are glider options in there.

   You and your student will have to select three flight activities/credits and three online course credits. Once that is complete he will have credit for the Flight Review.

   LIGHT SPORT. Are you training in a 2-33? A 2-33 fits in the light sport glider category. When he’s flying well enough, you can have a second CFIG fly with him to sign off light sport glider privileges. Send the 8710-12 to the FAA. He’s now a rated light sport glider pilot. He can then do a flight review in the glider…

   In either case he needs to be 61.56 compliant before solo flight. Note – add-on rating solo endorsement does not have an expiration date. In my club, we add a 30-day expiration to it.

   In either case, I’d discourage the efforts to get ACS proficient in something he doesn’t want to fly, just so he can fly what he wants to fly. (Imagine the real case of someone who started flight training in the USAF in T-37s at age 22 and only flew multi-engine jets until age 65!) Getting current in SEL to legit private pilot standards for a flight review will cost more than a glider add-on rating.

   Kris is quite right that much has changed. A lot of review will be required to make sure your add-on student is legal, safe, proficient, and check ride ready. Even though no knowledge test is required, please ensure you have covered all that material with him. (Good Wings course selections have great value here!) Given this much required work…

   Does your add-on student have 200 hours of flight time? If so, you might want him to consider 20 solo flights instead of ten as part of becoming a commercial glider pilot. Requires a written. The check ride is quite similar. At the end of this, he’d be quite well refreshed on FARs, airspace, etc.

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4. 
   

   
   

   Kris Kortokrax on Dec 14, 2019

   If WINGS does not require that you complete the flight tasks in an aircraft for which one is rated, the what would be the purpose of the following statements copied from page 3 of AC 61-91J?

   “Pilots with multiple aircraft ratings select the category and class of aircraft in which they wish to receive training and demonstrate their flight proficiency. Pilots may demonstrate all proficiency requirements for any phase of the WINGS Program in the same category and class, or may demonstrate those skills in any category and class for which they are rated.”

   This suggests that one may only select category/class if he possesses multiple ratings.

   Not saying that you are wrong, right out of the gate, but I think I need to ask my FAASTeam rep about this next week.

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5. 
   

   
   

   Mark Kolber on Dec 15, 2019

   Kris, I’m betting the answer tracks what the guidance says, if WINGS is acting as a FR substitute and the tasks need to be performed to ACS standards, it also makes sense that it tracks the FR requirement that it be in an aircraft the pilot is already rated for,

   Let us know the response you get p. You might want to raise the question before the meeting in case national policy needs to be checked,

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6. 
   

   
   

   LTCTerry on Dec 16, 2019

   From the FAA Wings webpage: “You select (in your Airman Profile) the category and class of aircraft in which you wish to receive training and in which you wish to demonstrate your flight proficiency.”

   In Kris’ quote above it says “may” not “must” or “shall.” The Wings page will quite readily let you select anything you are interested in training it. It’s training. Not a test. When ACS (or in the case of gliders still PTS) standards are met the pilot may receive credit.

   This is what clubs under the Soaring Society of America’s umbrella do. It would make no sense* for a former helicopter pilot to get current enough in a helicopter or a jet-only pilot to find a way to get current just to take a flight review. Turn in existing certificates and start over on a Student Pilot Certificate?

   *I realize “makes sense” doesn’t have to apply to government policies.

   Kris – will be curious to hear what you hear back from your FAASTeam folks.

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7. 
   

   
   

   Kris Kortokrax on Jan 22, 2020

   I did hear back from the FAASTeam rep. Although it seems counterintuitive to me, he said that he checked and that one could indeed complete a phase of Wings for an aircraft that he is not rated for, and that phase of Wings would count for a flight review. He did mention something about the individual needing to perform to the appropriate ACS/PTS.

   If you have already given him instruction, he might be proficient enough to perform to the standard.

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   flash on Jan 29, 2020

   All, thank you for your inputs. From the variety of answers, the FARs and ACs seem to give conflicting guidance. Plus, a student pilot can complete a phase of WINGS, though (s)he is not rated in anything.

   We pursued this with an inquiry to FAA/OKC, and were told the Flight Review must occur in an aircraft for which the student is rated, if (s)he is rated in anything. The answer referenced both the Beard Interpretation (thank you Kris Kortokrax); it also referenced a Newman Interpretation, dated July 28, 2015. https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/Data/interps/2015/Newman%20-%20(2015)%20Legal%20Interpretation.pdf

   I agree with LTC Terry’s “makes no sense” sentiment; perhaps we all do. Those who are following the “umbrella” he references may want to reconsider, given these two interpretations.

   Again, thanks to everyone for their considered input.

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